Redundancy- Waste of time?

My opinion is that all these gadgets are a waste of time if you do not know how to use them.

I have 3 cells - it's enough if you do the correct tests and watch what is happening and rotate the cells accordingly.

I do not have a BOV, I think the extra complication is not worth the minor advantage I perceive it brings. I do have a ADV for the same reason I have eCCR - I'm making the divng not diving the unit so I'm all for an easy life. I do have a flow-stop as this helps with MLV.

I have the Vision - so I have 2 controllers, 2 displays (one on the handset and one on the HUD). I have a simple timer and table to back-up the deco display. I use to bend the VR3 as backup - but now I use it as a paperweight.

I'd prefer to keep the bailout separate to the rebreather - so the unit is standard (even the auto-air!), no mods for me.

Each to their own, but I find fixing issues with new kit isn't the way to go.

Cheers
Matt.
 
I'd be quite comfortable with a stock unit for shallower dives, as long as it has a BOV fitted.

However for deeper dives I prefer to have enough gas connected straight to the BOV in case I need it, so I use a switch block to run the dive using off-board dil, and can switch to onboard cylinders if needed (I have needed to once). I don't like the idea of being unfamiliar with this set-up on a deep dive if something goes wrong, so I just dive it like this for all dives, using backgas for shallow and off-board for deep but the switch block is always there.

Hence my kit can be a bit cluttered. If I never did the big dives I would simplify a lot.
 
Mark Chase said:
I have had several issues on my CCR in the last 10 years including hand set failures and several high and low PP02 events. ALL of them, were alerted to me by my HUD and not by the hand sets
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Mark, the events related to high/low ppO2 happened diving mccr or eccr?

Along the years, my kiss has shown good ppO2 behaviour.
 
andrespp said:
Mark, the events related to high/low ppO2 happened diving mccr or eccr?

Along the years, my kiss has shown good ppO2 behaviour.
Click to expand...


All on ECCR

MCCR is very stable but just because I didnt have a blocked oraface or a 02 bypass dosent meen it cant happen

ATB

Mark
 
Mark Chase said:
Yes bailout is seriously over rated.

In over 1500 hours underwater on CCR i have only needed bailout on 3 dives so max 9 hours worth of diving required bailout out of 1500


OK if we are being pedantic id have died the fist time but hay statisticly Bailout is over rater :wave2:
Click to expand...

:))
 
Mark Chase said:
Yes bailout is seriously over rated.

In over 1500 hours underwater on CCR i have only needed bailout on 3 dives so max 9 hours worth of diving required bailout out of 1500


OK if we are being pedantic id have died the fist time but hay statisticly Bailout is over rater :wave2:
Click to expand...

So you're only 0.6% dead. And 99.4% alive. Surely that's good enough for anyone, the bailout is clearly very much a nice to have.
 
Stock unit for me, only bov directly to offboard. Separate computer and tables.
Some mods and setups i understand others i have difficulty.Some i find idiotic.
Where does one draw the line though?
Not all people do the same diving so redundancy as a concept appeals differently to individuals.
I propose one sets a benchmark ie dive1, dive2 and 3 with varying bts and depths and people respond with what they are comfortable in each situation to get a better picture.
 
Forgot to mention the one mod I made that I have stuck with. I am using a Gag strap, known by the more PC types as a mouth piece retaining head strap. I had it on the DSV prior to the BOV. Now that I am back on the DSV, I am still using it.

For me it makes the longer dives more comphy. With the rather stiff loop hoses on my Meg, I find I can turn my head without having to hold the loop to my mouth. I like it.

I dive with several different folks, none of whom have adopted the Gag strap....

I do not promote my rig, style of diving, or any of my other ideas when out and about. I have not sold off my BOV as I plan to put a pile of hours on my rig in the new config, and reserve the right to change my mind. I can say however that I am enjoying the slimmed down rig more every time I use it. Last week's dive off a small and poorly set up boat had me first in and to the shot line ready to go as I only had to clip off my BO and satisfy myself that the rig was working as it should.

The only thing I am thinking of going back to is the big pig sticker of a knife I used to sport on my inside left leg. As it is I have line cutters on my light head and on my belt and a weany little knife on my belt. The weany knife is a pain to deploy, and almost impossible to restowe. Some times it is just good to be able to pry, hack and threaten.

Peter
 
Mark Chase said:
All on ECCR
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Thank you, this is what I suspected.

As stated before, the Predator has a highly visible screen and in the way is put in my forearm, can see it just at a glance; besides, think that diving mccr builds consistent ppO2 monitoring discipline.

As I am neither a cave diver nor dive in very low viz conditions, so I am not planning to use a HUD for now.
 
Personally Im a great believer in simplicity, especially since thats easier to diagnose when things go wrong. However, its probably worth remembering that at the time the model T ford guys were rolling stuff off the production line that they would've considered most of the systems on a modern car to be too unreliable.
 
andrespp said:
Thank you, this is what I suspected.

As stated before, the Predator has a highly visible screen and in the way is put in my forearm, can see it just at a glance; besides, think that diving mccr builds consistent ppO2 monitoring discipline.

As I am neither a cave diver nor dive in very low viz conditions, so I am not planning to use a HUD for now.
Click to expand...


How do you monitor your PP02 doing a touch contact blind exit? do you let go the line or the other diver every 3 mins?

I am a massive fan of MCCR but i wouldn't dive one without a HUD because I know hand set diciplin is a variable and the incident pit loves a variable


CCR full cave course blind (eyes closed ) exit drill on a KISS MCCR Air dill PP02 droped to 0.15 due to task loading. Patrick spotted my flashing HUD

Hypoxic1.jpg







ATB

Mark
 
If it's a blind exit what good does a hud do? I've been in conditions I couldnt see a 18w hid more than a faint glow.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
 
Mark Chase said:
How do you monitor your PP02 doing a touch contact blind exit? do you let go the line or the other diver every 3 mins?

I am a massive fan of MCCR but i wouldn't dive one without a HUD because I know hand set diciplin is a variable and the incident pit loves a variable


CCR full cave course blind (eyes closed ) exit drill on a KISS MCCR Air dill PP02 droped to 0.15 due to task loading. Patrick spotted my flashing HUD

Hypoxic1.jpg







ATB

Mark
Click to expand...

Should you not bail in that scenario?
 
lizardland said:
If it's a blind exit what good does a hud do? I've been in conditions I couldnt see a 18w hid more than a faint glow.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


I have dived in some crap conditions but never so bad I couldent see my HUD flash red, but if its that bad I couldent see my PP02 on hand set or HUD id bailout to OC. Especialy on MCCR because on a ECCR you can (usualy) hear the 02 injection cycle which might give me the confidance to stay on loop a little longer


I posted the graph to show how task loading can take your mind off normaly simple tasks, like checking your PP02 on a hand set.

Add to that the fact it always seems to happen at the most inopertune moment on the dive?

This minor incident below was a Solinoid failure whilst hunting for catching and bagging up a lobster.

I honestly didnt notice the failure till my HUD flashed red :(

Solenoidfailureanalisis_zps3822b4b9.jpg
 
Mark Chase said:
CCR full cave course blind (eyes closed ) exit drill on a KISS MCCR Air dill PP02 droped to 0.15 due to task loading. Patrick spotted my flashing HUD
Click to expand...

For this reason when we were developing the TDI Rebreather Cave standards we put in there specifically during this skill that the diver needs to be able to monitor his PO2 at all times. This is after all the NUMBER ONE rule in CCR diving. Always know your PO2. To any Cave instructors performing this skill completely blind I highly suggest changing your methods and invest in a neoprene mask cover so the diver can stick his HUD inside and be blind to everything except his HUD. This will also allow the instructor to leave his light on and stay more in control and periodically check the divers handsets during the blind exit skill.

With OC I used to have them remove mask for this but with rebreathers I started by taking their back up mask and taping off everything except where their HUD was. This then lead to using neoprene mask covers and it has made the skill a lot safer, plus the diver can't peek. There is no reason the diver should not be able to monitor his PO2 while on the loop.
 
lizardland said:
If it's a blind exit what good does a hud do? I've been in conditions I couldnt see a 18w hid more than a faint glow.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

ditto. including a certain 'buttocks munching through drysuit moment'. 18W HID pressed against the mask and I couldnt see anything other than a dull glow in the fog.
 
Seems to me that a faint glow on a good quality HUD should be enough to get the job done! Personally, I would NEVER consider diving any rebreather without a HUD. I started out in the early days without a HUD and once I tried one the first time, I have never looked back. The HammerHead DIVA is a superb piece of kit! I am obviously slightly biased of course! :)
 
Randy Thornton said:
The HammerHead DIVA is a superb piece of kit! I am obviously slightly biased of course! :)
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It certainly is. The vibrating alert really is hard to miss. Every time it reboots in the middle of the dive I find myself thinking how clear a signal it is...



Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
 
ebt said:
ditto. including a certain 'buttocks munching through drysuit moment'. 18W HID pressed against the mask and I couldnt see anything other than a dull glow in the fog.
Click to expand...

Yep, it looked rather muddy from the surface. I was worried I was going to lose track of the beer that was cooling in the water.

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