Starting off on a classic

Mr fish said:
is that just the ybod , or would you say its all ccr units ,
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I wouldn't dive any CCR without a HUD

The YBOD was amazing in its day in that it opend up affordable CCR diving to the masses.

The early fatality rate was staggering and big lessons were lerned.

One of which is that for a diver to know his PP02 at all times he must have a HUD

My big issue with APD is they have never offered a retro fit HUD for the Classic and they refuse to suport divers who adopt third party HUDS

None of the other manufacturors have adopted this attitude


ATB

Mark
 
Bobjr said:
No it didn't save you. You weren't checking your handsets because you had a HUD. If you had been checking your handsets you would've seen they were turned off.
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The question is, inbetween them switching off and me getting arround to checking them again, would I have passed out?

Like 90% of divers out there I dive to do the dive not to spend 45mins looking at my hand sets.

Only diferenace between me and a lot of others out there is i admit it.

ATB

Mark
 
Mark Chase said:
And more peope have died from low PP02 on a Classic than on all the other units put together.

Always know your PP02

Impossable without a HUD

ATB

Mark
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I have to say that I find the N@90 HUD of limited use for knowing your PO2. It is a good backup if the computer cuts out, as has happened to me once, but I grow blind to the HUD very quickly. I have had it flashing 8 red (0.2ppO2) and I only realised because I checked the computer. The HUD just gives me a backup to the computer and a false sense of security about my ppO2 awareness.

I think the HUD can be useful, I would prefer one that vibrates when there is a problem though, or if it only flashed when there was a problem.

For a starter unit a basic Classic is fine. Once you are thinking about HUDs, Shearwaters, BMCL you should be thinking modify the Classic or change to a newer unit. I stuck with mine getting a N@90 head, very happy with it.

And regarding the safety record on a Classic, you need to look at fatalities per dive to account for the fact that Classics have done a lot more dives than many other units, and only cover a recent time period to account for the fact that many older Classic dives were done with a limited knowledge base. You probably need to account for a few other things too, most Classic divers are very very experienced or total beginners, less in the middle, etc.

Without accounting for all that kind of stuff any conclusions are worthless.
 
Interesting, Iain3, that you mention losing awareness of the HUD.

I find that it does tend to fade out of notice, however, it's a hell of a lot easier to check (for me) when I remember to ask and I have found that continuous flashing of lower PPO2 tends to get my attention.
 
Iain3 said:
And regarding the safety record on a Classic, you need to look at fatalities per dive to account for the fact that Classics have done a lot more dives than many other units, and only cover a recent time period to account for the fact that many older Classic dives were done with a limited knowledge base. You probably need to account for a few other things too, most Classic divers are very very experienced or total beginners, less in the middle, etc.

Without accounting for all that kind of stuff any conclusions are worthless.
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Exactly
 
Iain3 said:
I have to say that I find the N@90 HUD of limited use for knowing your PO2. It is a good backup if the computer cuts out, as has happened to me once, but I grow blind to the HUD very quickly. I have had it flashing 8 red (0.2ppO2) and I only realised because I checked the computer. The HUD just gives me a backup to the computer and a false sense of security about my ppO2 awareness.

I think the HUD can be useful, I would prefer one that vibrates when there is a problem though, or if it only flashed when there was a problem.
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Totally agree, I nearly karked it on the surface from hypoxia and the amount of people who said 'didn't you see the HUD flashing red?' surprised me. I rapidly became blind to the HUD (and it's hard to see it in bright light) and I ignored it flashing red on the surface because it's ALWAYS flashing red on the surface, just not as often. For a HUD I'd prefer a solid green if PPO2 is between high and low setpoint and a solid red for out of setpoint limits or loss of voting logic because then I know something is wrong because it's a completely different state than what I am used to seeing. the smithers code is OK for reading ppO2 as a backup but not that great at alerting you to an issue unless you are focussed on it.

another point that I hadn't considered until that time is that one of the symptoms I experienced as I sleepwalked towards death from hypoxia was a loss of peripheral vision. As a result I simply couldn't see the HUD anymore in my field of view. I used to have it fixed bottom right of my mask where I could see it with my peripheral vision and have since moved it to a more central location. I had to look at the handset to read my ppO2.
 
Mike Ferguson said:
Totally agree, I nearly karked it on the surface from hypoxia and the amount of people who said 'didn't you see the HUD flashing red?' surprised me. I rapidly became blind to the HUD (and it's hard to see it in bright light) and I ignored it flashing red on the surface because it's ALWAYS flashing red on the surface, just not as often. For a HUD I'd prefer a solid green if PPO2 is between high and low setpoint and a solid red for out of setpoint limits or loss of voting logic because then I know something is wrong because it's a completely different state than what I am used to seeing. the smithers code is OK for reading ppO2 as a backup but not that great at alerting you to an issue unless you are focussed on it.

another point that I hadn't considered until that time is that one of the symptoms I experienced as I sleepwalked towards death from hypoxia was a loss of peripheral vision. As a result I simply couldn't see the HUD anymore in my field of view. I used to have it fixed bottom right of my mask where I could see it with my peripheral vision and have since moved it to a more central location. I had to look at the handset to read my ppO2.
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Yes my HUD is defo in ya face

If I want to know my PP02 I have to stop think and count, but a cell dropping out resulting in an iregular flash pattern or a red flash, both get my attention prety quickly.

On the surface HUDS are prety useless I also find problems in bright sunlite in shalow water.

For this reasion you will not find me above 3m, on the surface or on the boat on any gas except pure 02 which I inject blindly and often

ATB

Mark
 
Mark Chase said:
On the surface HUDS are prety useless I also find problems in bright sunlite in shalow water.
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I have done an hour at 6m cupping my one hand over the HUD to see the LED and running manual O2 with the other. It works but not comfortably.

I think my ideal solution would be a smithers code that vibrates if ppO2 goes above or bellow acceptable parameters.
 
Aircraft use stick shakers to draw attention to stall problems, because it's a known fact that under stressful situations, other senses start to shut down such as hearing of alarms. A vibrating alarm for low ppo2 would be nice but I think the environment would make that also easy to miss.

Like mark, I wouldn't be without a HUD, the rate I check it reflects the convenience of checking it, plus my LCD display is hard to see. However, I do think the flash sequence makes a difference to the effectiveness of them. I like mine where the number of flashes directly correlates to the ppo2. I don't see it as a last ditch alarm, but confirmation that everything is alright or early warning that something's going off track.







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The other thing I like about my HUD is all it does in life is tell me my PP02. It dosent control the solinoid, it dosent calculate deco or display graphs or prepair log books ALL it does is flash the number of flashes relevent to my PP02 on each cell.

To me simple = reliable

To me simple = les chance of wierd odd computer thechinal programing glitch type crap hapening.

I like simple :D

I generaly dont trust electronics but I am more trustworthy of basic electronics.

ATB

Mark
 
i have had a classic since 2005. it has taken me 300' and back again. there is a lot of fancy stuff out today. it works! it is not the machine but the driver. duh just enjoy it and stay within your limits.
 
Mark Chase said:
The other thing I like about my HUD is all it does in life is tell me my PP02. It dosent control the solinoid, it dosent calculate deco or display graphs or prepair log books ALL it does is flash the number of flashes relevent to my PP02 on each cell.

To me simple = reliable

To me simple = les chance of wierd odd computer thechinal programing glitch type crap hapening.

I like simple :D

I generaly dont trust electronics but I am more trustworthy of basic electronics.

ATB

Mark
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Yep. I looked at the NERD type stuff and realised something else - no mask or tunnel vision/blurred vision because maybe you've left it too late? Can see and count flashes a hell of a lot easier than trying to read a display.

Had another AP cell crap out on me today (2nd one this week, nice one guys) and noticed in short order thanks to the HUD: I guess without the HUD I'd be checking paddles a lot more often but still, nice to have it right there and nice to know that I did notice when the flashing got out of its usual blink blink blink pause rhythm.
 
I think the HUD will Def be on the shopping list. Any reccomendations of any particular one. I.e shearwater vs marked@90?

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I have a classic student doing his MOD1 confined session tomorrow. Hell be on a stock unit without a HUD and although I will be recommending them as extremely useful, Ill also be recommending that they are not used as an alternative to monitoring your PO2 via the handsets and warning him against relying solely on HUD readings.

There are 2 handsets for a reason. There are benefits to looking at actual numbers as you move dynamically in the water column. You spot cells on their way out as you see them giving different data to the others.

Its no surprise to me when divers without a cell checker, who like to monitor PO2 via their HUD; find out they have a bad cell 'crap out' on them on a dive.
 
if you can pick a ybod for 1200 ish that would give you 2k to spend on HUD,S BOV,S AND SHEARWATER 3 cell back up computer ,

only thing you cant get at the mo is the temp stick and co2 gizmo ,

just my 2p

tho you could put that 2k towards a nice trip out to Truk. :thumbsup:
 
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Chris Brown said:
I have a classic student doing his MOD1 confined session tomorrow. Hell be on a stock unit without a HUD and although I will be recommending them as extremely useful, Ill also be recommending that they are not used as an alternative to monitoring your PO2 via the handsets and warning him against relying solely on HUD readings.

There are 2 handsets for a reason. There are benefits to looking at actual numbers as you move dynamically in the water column. You spot cells on their way out as you see them giving different data to the others.

Its no surprise to me when divers without a cell checker, who like to monitor PO2 via their HUD; find out they have a bad cell 'crap out' on them on a dive.
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????? you know you can do all that on a Smithers Code HUD right?

Its very easy to spot a bad cell on a Shearwater HUD I reckon Ill spot it within about 1 second of it going out of sync with ther other two.

ATB

Mark
 
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