Practising deep bailouts

[Mr fish]

I think it would have to be move faster Mr Fish, by all accounts I don't think breathing less is an option:big:
When you say maybe a bit from your onboard O2, do you access this using a quick disconnect to your bov
or by a reg? Do you stick a 3rd cylinder on the line on all your deep dives?

John

no bov , but i can get at all the gas oc or ccr , even my suit feed is good to deco on lol
and no dont with a 3 cylinder unless ist over 75m

i norm have a few run times in mine , maybe 35 min at 70m lost buddy , 45 mins with buddy , and i may push the boat out if iv got a buddy and back round the shot ,

 

[Navigator]

Me too. Bov is for getting out and up. Once I've reached the other stops it's just a simple gas switch. My bailout is paper tables so forget the computer. Couldnt even tell you how to do it on the HH.

If I were to bail for flood or electronics, I'd be switching to my backup computer and follow that.
If it was a CO2 hit and high breathing rate, mentally, I don't think it would be possible for me
to switch to a computer, and for that reason I carry tables on every dive. The plan would be to
get close to my ceiling and use the tables. What struck me in the video was how disabling the
hit was to Portillo! When told to put on his mask or you will die! He just sat there with a big daft
grin on his face:big:

 

[Navigator]

no bov , but i can get at all the gas oc or ccr , even my suit feed is good to deco on lol
and no dont with a 3 cylinder unless ist over 75m

i norm have a few run times in mine , maybe 35 min at 70m lost buddy , 45 mins with buddy , and i may push the boat out if iv got a buddy and back round the shot ,

Suit feed, you learn something every day! Lol

 

[Bobjr]

If I were to bail for flood or electronics, I'd be switching to my backup computer and follow that.
If it was a CO2 hit and high breathing rate, mentally, I don't think it would be possible for me
to switch to a computer, and for that reason I carry tables on every dive. The plan would be to
get close to my ceiling and use the tables. What struck me in the video was how disabling the
hit was to Portillo! When told to put on his mask or you will die! He just sat there with a big daft
grin on his face:big:

That (portillo) was hypoxia not hypercapnia.

 

[Nitrogenius]

I've never had a hit so it's a bit of an unknown quantity! Out of interest what was your gas consumption
on your bottom mix when you experienced your hits?

I had a 70l/min for 3 min in the aftermath.
Then I quickly stabilized my SAC Levels to my normal rates after that.

This is what I "plan" with..
But I am with lizard on this one.
On the deeper dive you quickly get to the Limit of that one big tank anyways, so that is the plan..
In case of CO2 hit I "plan" my Bottom BO to be empty. I mentally prepare and discuss with my Buddy that in such case I might Need his deep BO as well to make it to first Deco gas depth and from first deco gas depth I plan "normal"´Bailout..

So the real interest area for planning purposes is the Deco Gas depth Levels.. Here it makes sense to Keep track of your SAC Levels once in a while as well as Training muscle Memory in order you Need to react quickly..

I Keep track of my OC SAC rates by still diving a considerate amount of dives in OC (mostly shallow SM caving) and then doing some drills on CCR Training dives for muscle Memory..

 

[Mark Chase]

C02 silly SAC gas planning

Breath bottom mix till it runs out whilst ascending stupidly fast to next tank depth

Breath next tank (even if its too deep) till it runs out whilst ascending stupidly fast to shalow deco depth

breath shallow deco tank till it runs out then surface inflate everything to the max and wait for help.

End of plan


ATB

Mark

 

[Navigator]

That (portillo) was hypoxia not hypercapnia.

I always did get those two mixed up jr, well spotted! :smackbum:But sadly they both have the same outcome
if not dealt with. 1 out of 2 ain't bad though, you got to admit, he did have a big daft grin on his face though!

 

[Navigator]

C02 silly SAC gas planning

Breath bottom mix till it runs out whilst ascending stupidly fast to next tank depth

Breath next tank (even if its too deep) till it runs out whilst ascending stupidly fast to shalow deco depth

breath shallow deco tank till it runs out then surface inflate everything to the max and wait for help.

End of plan


ATB

Mark

I gotta give it to ya Chasey, that's bailout made simple! Going off Nitrogenios sac of 70 ltrs.
It's rather your way, or start carrying a J or 2 or 3

 

[rjack]

I had never done a bailout deeper than about 20m until yesterday. I decided to bail at the end of our dive on a minesweeper at about 195ft/58m. I intentionally waited until we were back at the shot. In any case, the deep bits ascending on 18/45 were fine. That regulator is necklaced and as long as I unclip it, getting it around my gag strap was easy. Used about 30cft getting up to 70ft in about 6 mins (not super fast but adequate, we stopped/slowed at 100,90,80ft).

The switch to EAN50 was fine but 2 things arose. I sidemount my bailouts and its almost impossible to check the MODS on the sides myself unless I unclip the tail and swing it forward. Between it being behind me and my TOS counterlungs seeing the MOD was next to impossible. Unclipping takes a considerable amount of contortions midwater and is not something I would want to try stressed. Second, the hose on the right hand bailout (EAN50 in this case) bows out way past my elbow. I don't really want to use a custom hose on a stage reg but it was pretty far out there in terms of snagging on something. 70 to 30ft stops were used about 22cf and were fine.

Switching back to my 18/45 necklace at 30ft wasn't a big deal, but restowing the EAN50 reg was a major pain. Again, the only way this was gonna happen without some help from a buddy was if I unclipped the tank and rotated the tail forward. But only having 2 hands with one holding the tail of a 1/2 full AL80 wasn't very easy either. My Al30 of O2 is slung underneath my left side AL80 of 18/45. I had no issues seeing the MOD sticker or with that switch and finished our deco still on OC.

Takeaways for me:
I have to unclip my necklaced bottom gas if I want to breath it around my gag strap for any length of time.
Hard to impossible to verify MODs on sidemounted bailouts unless you swing the tail around, the cylinder is too far back and the counterlungs are even more stuff in the way. I need to relabel things on the necks better and i could possibly just undo the neck bungies to verify then without swinging the tails around.
40" bailout hose on the right hand tank is really long.
Restowing bailout regs on a sidemounted tank is challenging.

Overall I'm glad I tried it out from substantive depth, there's more to it that SAC rate and OC buoyancy (both of which were not a big deal).

 

[dunny]

I had never done a bailout deeper than about 20m until yesterday. I decided to bail at the end of our dive on a minesweeper at about 195ft/58m. I intentionally waited until we were back at the shot. In any case, the deep bits ascending on 18/45 were fine. That regulator is necklaced and as long as I unclip it, getting it around my gag strap was easy. Used about 30cft getting up to 70ft in about 6 mins (not super fast but adequate, we stopped/slowed at 100,90,80ft).

The switch to EAN50 was fine but 2 things arose. I sidemount my bailouts and its almost impossible to check the MODS on the sides myself unless I unclip the tail and swing it forward. Between it being behind me and my TOS counterlungs seeing the MOD was next to impossible. Unclipping takes a considerable amount of contortions midwater and is not something I would want to try stressed. Second, the hose on the right hand bailout (EAN50 in this case) bows out way past my elbow. I don't really want to use a custom hose on a stage reg but it was pretty far out there in terms of snagging on something. 70 to 30ft stops were used about 22cf and were fine.

Switching back to my 18/45 necklace at 30ft wasn't a big deal, but restowing the EAN50 reg was a major pain. Again, the only way this was gonna happen without some help from a buddy was if I unclipped the tank and rotated the tail forward. But only having 2 hands with one holding the tail of a 1/2 full AL80 wasn't very easy either. My Al30 of O2 is slung underneath my left side AL80 of 18/45. I had no issues seeing the MOD sticker or with that switch and finished our deco still on OC.

Takeaways for me:
I have to unclip my necklaced bottom gas if I want to breath it around my gag strap for any length of time.
Hard to impossible to verify MODs on sidemounted bailouts unless you swing the tail around, the cylinder is too far back and the counterlungs are even more stuff in the way. I need to relabel things on the necks better and i could possibly just undo the neck bungies to verify then without swinging the tails around.
40" bailout hose on the right hand tank is really long.
Restowing bailout regs on a sidemounted tank is challenging.

Overall I'm glad I tried it out from substantive depth, there's more to it that SAC rate and OC buoyancy (both of which were not a big deal).

Not sure what regs your using but in the past I have written the gas contents on a piece of cardboard and taped them to the top of the reg (they last a few dives, if its BO then maybe laminate first?). Makes life much easier, now I just dive lean left rich right as I couldn't see the point in not doing it once I went CCR.

 

[rjack]

Since its really only my right hand tank that I need to check, I think if I label it on the crown/neck and then undo the neck bungie so it hangs on the neck clip I should be able to read it fine. Undoing the neck bungie is easy and the neck clip (which is mostly a safety in case the bungie pops off) just allows it to hang slightly lower than a conventional stage bottle.

My left cylinder of bottom mix is bungied at my neck (I don't think I need to verify a switch to a necklace, I never did that on OC) and my O2 bottle is visible and easy to verify underneath that left tank. I tried leashing bottles once off my buttplate and it hated it. So realistically 2x al80s and a 40 is going to take me everywhere I will go in the ocean.

I do the left lean - right rich dealio, but I would never use that as my sole verification of the gas. Regs get moved around, bottles can be put on wrong etc. I want to verify the MOD on the bottle itself.

 

[Ben Field]

A couple of comments with no offence intended.

The switch to EAN50 was fine but 2 things arose. I sidemount my bailouts and its almost impossible to check the MODS on the sides myself unless I unclip the tail and swing it forward.

Define "sidemount" in the past I've found people use this word for any time a tank isn't on their back so can be 20 different techniques.

If by Sidemount you actually mean sidemount cave style with butt-plate and bungies, tanks above/behind your arms then since the tanks setup for "proper" sidemount can only ever go in one place- ie, on the left or right why check the MOD? Since you can't put the tank in the wrong place!

but restowing the EAN50 reg was a major pain.

Why re-stow the reg? Unless you are on a fashion shoot let it hang until you reach a stable position then faff around. From OC Trimix through CCR I just let it hang all over then tidy up on the 6mtr stop so I don't get hung up getting back on the boat or incase some chump on deck has a camera ;-)

Now you know its an issue, re-rig the bailouts so you can do a one-handed stow, I went through all the iterations of shock cord, inner tube, bungees etc and eventually settles for a simple stand up clip at the bottom on the stage, any other hoses (inflators SPG's etc) live under inner tube but the reg has a piston snap to the tank neck then just loop the hose around the clip- strategically placed the exact distance down the tank the second stage hose can reach. I can now restow the reg blind and one-handed.

Overall I'm glad I tried it out from substantive depth, there's more to it that SAC rate and OC buoyancy (both of which were not a big deal).

Exactly- but now you can eradicate those issues and OC bailout becomes a non-issue, despite the mountain some people like to make this molehill out to be

 

[kwinter]

If by Sidemount you actually mean sidemount cave style with butt-plate and bungies, tanks above/behind your arms then since the tanks setup for "proper" sidemount can only ever go in one place- ie, on the left or right why check the MOD? Since you can't put the tank in the wrong place!

Not true, Ben. I use inline valves on my bailouts specifically so that I can mount them on either side. And many people sidemount tanks without regard to having matching left and right valves. A certain gas might be a right side rich gas on one dive and a lean gas on another dive.



iPhone. iTypo. iApologize.

 

[rjack]

The bottles are sidemounted using a butt plate attached to the base of my SS backplate and a loop bungie, also called an "old school" bungie. So yeah they are about as far up and behind my shoulder as possible. I use a boltsnap on a cord around the neck as a backup to the bungie. When hanging on that they are fairly low but not upside down (if there were no boltsnap safety). So if I undo the neck bungie I can drop the bottle low enough to see the crown area and verify a MOD there. Too many people have breathed the wrong gas at depth to not be verifying MODs IMHO. Swinging the tail around is fine if I have a (cave) floor or something to help me. But I don't really want to be doing that midwater in a bailout scenario.

 

[dive!dive!]

I do a bailout at the end of every dive in the quarry over the winter. Its not deep so just air, and I fill my own anyway. Do the whole drill - bail to bov, switch off o2, send smb up, switch to reg at 21 (same cylinder , just to simulate the switch from bov to reg), all the way up to 6m stops. Don't need to go any deeper than 25m to practice this - deeper is easier anyway as less volume change for suit/wing/loop etc.
Its surprising how awkward this feels for the first couple of times, even after you've been diving all summer. I'm definitely in the 'if I practise it will be easier when i'm properly stressed' camp.....

 

[rjack]

Likewise I had bailed at 30m of less on a few occasions before for practice. But I did not quite realize the challenges that sidemounted bottles pose to verifying gases until I bailed onto them at ~58m. And I had been sidmount diving on OC for a 3 or 4 years already, but on those dives my main bottles are backgas and I don't verify they are breathable.