Practising deep bailouts

N

Navigator

New Member
How many of us actually practice deep bailouts?
Talking to various divers on trips I've been on, it seems that not many of us actually practice them.
I'm talking in the region of 50-60 metres.
These days I don't dive OC, and as a consequence my SAC rate has increased.
It occurred to me that if divers, like myself, don't dive OC any more, are we being honest with ourselves when it comes to planning bailout? Are we using SAC rates from years ago?
What we plan we will use, and what we actually use can be very different!
I try a bailout once a year at depth to empty the tins and to refresh the gas, expensive I know, but worth
it in my opinion!
What do you do?
 
Navigator said:
How many of us actually practice deep bailouts?
Talking to various divers on trips I've been on, it seems that not many of us actually practice them.
I'm talking in the region of 50-60 metres.
These days I don't dive OC, and as a consequence my SAC rate has increased.
It occurred to me that if divers, like myself, don't dive OC any more, are we being honest with ourselves when it comes to planning bailout? Are we using SAC rates from years ago?
What we plan we will use, and what we actually use can be very different!
I try a bailout once a year at depth to empty the tins and to refresh the gas, expensive I know, but worth
it in my opinion!
What do you do?
Click to expand...


On OC deep dives id plan for a 15 SAC and usualy do arround 12. Deco id plan for 10 with reserves and generaly id be comfortably arround 8

For CCR bailout I am gas planning for 25 on deep bailout and 20 on intermediate bailout and 15 on shallow bailout

The numbers I use are for C02 hits.

If the stressed breathing is continuing and its not C02 related and it's over 50% above normal SAC then theres a bigger question needs to be asked.

So far (10 years) I have had three or four bailouts and only 2 were deep. one very deep

Gas volumes wernt an issue but luckley I wasn't suffering a C02 hit on any of them.

I dont practice them as I dont realy feel the need

ATB

Mark
 
Mark Chase said:
On OC deep dives id plan for a 15 SAC and usualy do arround 12. Deco id plan for 10 with reserves and generaly id be comfortably arround 8

For CCR bailout I am gas planning for 25 on deep bailout and 20 on intermediate bailout and 15 on shallow bailout

The numbers I use are for C02 hits.

If the stressed breathing is continuing and its not C02 related and it's over 50% above normal SAC then theres a bigger question needs to be asked.

So far (10 years) I have had three or four bailouts and only 2 were deep. one very deep

Gas volumes wernt an issue but luckley I wasn't suffering a C02 hit on any of them.

I dont practice them as I dont realy feel the need

ATB

Mark
Click to expand...
 
Navigator said:
Mark Chase said:
On OC deep dives id plan for a 15 SAC and usualy do arround 12. Deco id plan for 10 with reserves and generaly id be comfortably arround 8

For CCR bailout I am gas planning for 25 on deep bailout and 20 on intermediate bailout and 15 on shallow bailout

The numbers I use are for C02 hits.

If the stressed breathing is continuing and its not C02 related and it's over 50% above normal SAC then theres a bigger question needs to be asked.

So far (10 years) I have had three or four bailouts and only 2 were deep. one very deep

Gas volumes wernt an issue but luckley I wasn't suffering a C02 hit on any of them.

I dont practice them as I dont realy feel the need

ATB

Mark
Click to expand...


For ccr I plan 30 for the bottom phase, 20 intermediate and 15 shallow.
I know these figures work for me under circumstances like a flood. It's the CO2 hit that's the unknown quantity.
I suppose we just have to hope we get it right! I was watching this earlier on you tube, I wonder if this will help:big:
http://youtu.be/WTNX6mr753w
Just a thought:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Click to expand...
 
Its the old shark attack thing

IE there comes a point where its beyound planning and you just survive it or you dont

I have looked at C02 and Come to terms with the fact its right up there with shark attack

ATB

Mark
 
I don't practice deep bailouts because if I'm bailing out deep then either the unit is flooded, in which case it's not really a stressy situation, or because I'm having a CO2 hit, in which case it is very stressy. If it is the latter then no amount of practice is going to prepare me for it. SAC calcs are almost pointless past 50-60m so I take a big bottle and expect to empty it. I've had two CO2 hits and I don't really see how I'd prepare in advance.

Turn the BOV lever and go up. I can train for that at any depth. Why should I piss trimix up the wall to do that when I can just spunk a tin of air at 20m?
 
id did a few bails out s from 80 to 40m when i first started (mod1 lol)

just to see how fast i could go and how much gas id need ,

did,nt bother after that , i plan for what i think i will need , and that will have to do , im going to have to breath less or move faster .

two 7ls still do me for 75m and maybe a bit from my on board / inboard 02

past that i move up to a ali 80 pig and a 7l . after that im hoping my buddy is around, and or i may stick a 3 cylinder on the line ,

stu it was cylinder testing time so gas needed to go , lol
 
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Mark Chase said:
Its the old shark attack thing

IE there comes a point where its beyound planning and you just survive it or you dont

I have looked at C02 and Come to terms with the fact its right up there with shark attack

ATB

Mark
Click to expand...



Ha Ha, I think you've got that spot on Mark!
 
lizardland said:
I don't practice deep bailouts because if I'm bailing out deep then either the unit is flooded, in which case it's not really a stressy situation, or because I'm having a CO2 hit, in which case it is very stressy. If it is the latter then no amount of practice is going to prepare me for it. SAC calcs are almost pointless past 50-60m so I take a big bottle and expect to empty it. I've had two CO2 hits and I don't really see how I'd prepare in advance.

Turn the BOV lever and go up. I can train for that at any depth. Why should I piss trimix up the wall to do that when I can just spunk a tin of air at 20m?
Click to expand...


I've never had a hit so it's a bit of an unknown quantity! Out of interest what was your gas consumption
on your bottom mix when you experienced your hits?
 
I think it would have to be move faster Mr Fish, by all accounts I don't think breathing less is an option:big:
When you say maybe a bit from your onboard O2, do you access this using a quick disconnect to your bov
or by a reg? Do you stick a 3rd cylinder on the line on all your deep dives?

John
 
Navigator said:
I've never had a hit so it's a bit of an unknown quantity! Out of interest what was your gas consumption
on your bottom mix when you experienced your hits?
Click to expand...
I'd guess in the region of 35-40l/min for the first couple of minutes but even when it dropped it was still higher than my oc rate.
 
I think the best time to simulate a bailout scenario would be when the bailout cylinders require a visual or hydro test.

However the way I simulate a planned bailout situation without actually using the bailout gasses is after a dive when I am out of Deco. Turning the lever of the BOV is simple & does not need to be practised; what however needs to be practised is rotating and plugging the bailouts and switching 3 Computers (2 x Handsets and 1 x standalone) from CC to OC & back and selection of the right gas. Since all 3 computers are different models (HH REV-D, HH-Rev C, NeHO) the menus are all different which needs to be practised repeatedly.

RMV during Deco = 20l/min. I know I do close to 16l/min in a normal dive; should I get too exited I hope that the rule of thirds takes care of that.
 
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Uwe Sieg said:
Turning the lever of the BOV is simple & does not need to be practised; what however needs to be practised is rotating and plugging the bailouts and switching 3 Computers (2 x Handsets and 1 x standalone) from CC to OC & back and selection of the right gas. Since all 3 computers are different models (HH REV-D, HH-Rev C, NeHO) the menus are all different which needs to be practised repeatedly.

Wouldn't bother, isolate 02 and get the **** out

As for switching gases for a bov... What's wrong with a reg ?

Bov to start with but don't plan on staying on mine
Click to expand...
 
Me too. Bov is for getting out and up. Once I've reached the other stops it's just a simple gas switch. My bailout is paper tables so forget the computer. Couldnt even tell you how to do it on the HH.
 
For me it's disconcerting when I hear "what's to practice? It's bloody simple..." (Or something to that effect). I'm all about muscle memory, and that can only be achieved by rote. Practice. When everything goes pear shaped, you probably aren't thinking properly. What about loop management, buoyancy control, gas switches, computer switching, deco management?

I'm not saying it's true with this group, but quite often when I hear people don't practice a drill it's usually because they're nervous to do so, and therefore go down the "well, it's never been a problem, so why should I practice for it?" path.

Just this week I had to wash out a Scientific Diver candidate because he freaked out with his mask off and wanted to bolt for the surface. Did I mention he was certified as a Divemaster? (Don't get me started on that). He said he is always wiggy with his mask off, so he never does it (how did anyone certify him as a Divemaster? His instructor did him an enormous disservice, and in turn put unknown others at risk too, but I digress...)

Point is, I personally try to take nothing for granted. Skills are perishable. Burning off gas before VIPs is a great way to drill this skill while not burning extra $$$.
 
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Johnnyh said:
For me it's disconcerting when I hear "what's to practice? It's bloody simple..." (Or something to that effect). I'm all about muscle memory, and that can only be achieved by rote. Practice. When everything goes pear shaped, you probably aren't thinking properly. What about loop management, buoyancy control, gas switches, computer switching, deco management?

I'm not saying it's true with this group, but quite often when I hear people don't practice a drill it's usually because they're nervous to do so, and therefore go down the "well, it's never been a problem, so why should I practice for it?" path.

Just this week I had to wash out a Scientific Diver candidate because he freaked out with his mask off and wanted to bolt for the surface. Did I mention he was certified as a Divemaster? (Don't get me started on that). He said he is always wiggy with his mask off, so he never does it (how did anyone certify him as a Divemaster? His instructor did him an enormous disservice, and in turn put unknown others at risk too, but I digress...)

Point is, I personally try to take nothing for granted. Skills are perishable. Burning off gas before VIPs is a great way to drill this skill while not burning extra $$$.
Click to expand...

You get bailouts tested? Pretty much all my cylinders are out of test by at least five years. Once they've been filled that's it. If I ever need to bail for real then I'll be a blubbering mess when I think about how much it will cost to get them refilled.

Anyhow... nobody said don't practice. I just don't see the point in doing it deep. I turn the BOV lever as easy in 10m as I can in 80m, I don't see any point wasting gas doing something where depth is irrelevant. If anything, the deeper part of the ascent is the easiest anyway. It's shallower where your managing buoyancy, managing a reel, etc., where the busy time comes. I can do that on a bottle of air from 20m.
 
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