jackdiver
Member
The tick doesn't come up with the current optocon software, not unless there is a HP reading of some sort.
However, once you've aborted everything goes green after a few minutes... So no big deal.
Optocon, is it worth upgrading?
- Thread starter jackdiver
- Start date
The tick doesn't come up with the current optocon software, not unless there is a HP reading of some sort.
However, once you've aborted everything goes green after a few minutes... So no big deal.
Ben Field
All IMVHO obviously...
Genius- the "most advanced unit" with loads of checks that lets you go diving with no gas... I can see the coroner sharpening his knives already :cuckoo:
(Joking)
I'm all for simplicity but if you are going to go down the computer controlled everything route then surely it should actively stop you if you (for example) have no gas being detected by the computer?
jackdiver
Member
Why?
It doesn't detect gas, you turn off the alarm because you know that you have gas and the sensor has failed (flat battery, whatever).
it does go bananas if you jump in with the HP sensors enabled and no pressure on the sensors ie no gas or low gas. The function for turnnig the HP's off is if you wish to be able to go to off-boards, as you have the option to plug in, then instead of having a constant alarm cos you in-boards are low on gas you turn the alarms off. You have to physically run through a number of screens to get to the function, so its a fully premeditated action required by the diver.
As we've said above the HP's auto reset when you fire up the unit again, os they don't stay 'turned off'.....
Ben Field
All IMVHO obviously...
Why?
It doesn't detect gas, you turn off the alarm because you know that you have gas and the sensor has failed (flat battery, whatever).
I was gently leg pulling to be fair... but I think its a justified pull.
You build something with inumerable safety layers then you provide the option of turning some of them off or ignoring them thus handing the call back to the human element? To me that just smacks of indecision in the design process- either make it a computer controlled safety wonder or don't, why p*ss about on the edges of automation? :sarcy:
Or look at it another way- make the unit £500 less and give the diver a pair of SPG's rather than the techno-wonder pressure monitors- the end result is apparently the same level of operation!
tufty
New Member
coz the spg's would ruin an otherwise clean rig
- after all spg's reading zero doesn't stop someone diving, the fact that the alarms go mental and you have to turn them off means your making a disicion, thats what the sentinel is all about - it warns you that somethings not right now its up to you what you do 
Baron015
Member
I never missed a dive on my Sentinel in two years but occasionally had to turn off TPM or HP sensors to get through predive checks.
I put the unit in for Optocon but then I sold it so I can't tell you if I found the upgrades personally worth it. I certainly liked the idea. In the end it made my unit more attractive on the secondary market and I hope the new owner has many hours of trouble free Optocon fun.
I genuinely hold much residual affection for the Sentinel.
I put the unit in for Optocon but then I sold it so I can't tell you if I found the upgrades personally worth it. I certainly liked the idea. In the end it made my unit more attractive on the secondary market and I hope the new owner has many hours of trouble free Optocon fun.
I genuinely hold much residual affection for the Sentinel.
tufty
New Member
.Alarm goes off, check handsets, remedy problem. Is that too difficult to grasp?
Theres no pretence at automation any more than most other eCCR out there, a couple of extra alarms and the function to disable those alarms once you've recitified the problem and have engaged a solution.
When you have a fire drill at work, do you leave the alarms going all day or turn them off once you've done the drill and checked the premesis?
you want automation, maybe you should talk to Mr Deas.
Ben Field
All IMVHO obviously...
coz the spg's would ruin an otherwise clean rig
At least I know your not serious anymore :lol:
Pat413
Member
Same impression to me. Lot's of people called me crazy when I show interest in Sentinel and Ouroboros. Now I'm proud owner of Boris and more than happy.
Any rig has it's strenght and weakness. Of course you need to take care ouf your rig doesn't matter if a VR unit, JJ, MEG or whatever. I have even see the MEG of my buddy failed with stuck open solenoid which he doesn't realized directly due to task overload in an exercise dive. This is one of the reasons I dive VR unit. And no I don't sell them or be related to them in any way, just regular customer.
YobazEfendi
New Member
I thought there was a law stating that products have to be supported for a certain amount of years after purchas, spare parts wise.
Jonas Pavletic
Mine Explorer
There is a law requiring the supplier to provide spare parts, but there is no law that actually dictate the price of said spare part.
Actually, I had the very same thoughts that has been presented in this thread when my old SPGs failed after several years of spotless performance. When VR told me that I had to pay for the Optocon upgrade, my first reaction was "WTF!".
After a couple of seconds of thinking, I realized that I actually got a better unit after the upgrade. No more fuss with the TPM that had been pesting me for months due to bad connection at assembly, installing the canister is a dream now that the TPM-cable is history.
I still had to pay for the upgrade though, but on the other hand VR didn't charge me for the 200h service. All in all, I got the upgrade for about half the list price which is an awesome deal compared to demanding and paying for end-of-life-spare-parts. In my view, this is a solution that everyone(?) gain from. VR can minimize their spare part supply and use only one type of SPGs while at the same time getting rid of the quality problems of the old SPG solution from the entire Sentinel population. The users get units that work a lot better than the early solution which in turn lead to a bigger market for second hand units.
Is half the list price good enough when it comes to VR "sponsoring" the replacement? It could surely be even less expensive for the end customer, but as I said I'm more than happy about the new functionality and simplified assembly process of my updated unit.
The only sad part that prevent me from being 100% happy is the fact that I had problems with the HP readings during the last dive. Had to switch both SPGs to offboard mode to get rid of the alarms, but I could still perform the +3hrs of cave dive anyway.
Back at home the readings were working again, currently waiting for problem to reappear before trying out the solution promptly suggested by VR tech support. So far, over the +4 years since I got the unit only one dive missed due to sloppy unit assembly (lung popped at water entry) and one dive missed (or actually delayed) due to one of the MAV-buttons falling off on dry-land causing a need to get out off the water, finding the button, replace and get going again. Both problems fully caused by poor experience that most likely create problems regardless of unit used.
The good thing about popping the lung and completely flooding the unit is that I know for a fact that it works like a dream after getting all the water out of the unit :rocker:
I obviously had to try that when I got the opportunity *smile*
All in all:
I know that I've been lucky with my unit despite being one of the early ones.
I still love the bells and whistles since they are what actually made me go for a Sentinel in the first place. When whistle performance is poor (or non-existant) I'm obviously annoyed, but at least I can go diving anyway after disabling the corresponding alarm. When all the alarms are disabled I'm still down to the performance of how some other units on the market work on their best day. Annoying as hell when bells that I paid good money for don't live up to expectations, but still perfectly diveable...
/Jonas
Actually, I had the very same thoughts that has been presented in this thread when my old SPGs failed after several years of spotless performance. When VR told me that I had to pay for the Optocon upgrade, my first reaction was "WTF!".
After a couple of seconds of thinking, I realized that I actually got a better unit after the upgrade. No more fuss with the TPM that had been pesting me for months due to bad connection at assembly, installing the canister is a dream now that the TPM-cable is history.
I still had to pay for the upgrade though, but on the other hand VR didn't charge me for the 200h service. All in all, I got the upgrade for about half the list price which is an awesome deal compared to demanding and paying for end-of-life-spare-parts. In my view, this is a solution that everyone(?) gain from. VR can minimize their spare part supply and use only one type of SPGs while at the same time getting rid of the quality problems of the old SPG solution from the entire Sentinel population. The users get units that work a lot better than the early solution which in turn lead to a bigger market for second hand units.
Is half the list price good enough when it comes to VR "sponsoring" the replacement? It could surely be even less expensive for the end customer, but as I said I'm more than happy about the new functionality and simplified assembly process of my updated unit.
The only sad part that prevent me from being 100% happy is the fact that I had problems with the HP readings during the last dive. Had to switch both SPGs to offboard mode to get rid of the alarms, but I could still perform the +3hrs of cave dive anyway.
Back at home the readings were working again, currently waiting for problem to reappear before trying out the solution promptly suggested by VR tech support. So far, over the +4 years since I got the unit only one dive missed due to sloppy unit assembly (lung popped at water entry) and one dive missed (or actually delayed) due to one of the MAV-buttons falling off on dry-land causing a need to get out off the water, finding the button, replace and get going again. Both problems fully caused by poor experience that most likely create problems regardless of unit used.
The good thing about popping the lung and completely flooding the unit is that I know for a fact that it works like a dream after getting all the water out of the unit :rocker:
I obviously had to try that when I got the opportunity *smile*
All in all:
I know that I've been lucky with my unit despite being one of the early ones.
I still love the bells and whistles since they are what actually made me go for a Sentinel in the first place. When whistle performance is poor (or non-existant) I'm obviously annoyed, but at least I can go diving anyway after disabling the corresponding alarm. When all the alarms are disabled I'm still down to the performance of how some other units on the market work on their best day. Annoying as hell when bells that I paid good money for don't live up to expectations, but still perfectly diveable...
/Jonas
Chris Brown
Official CAMRA ale tester
After spending a few days diving my Sentinel with Greg Such again, I am finally starting to 'get' this unit and more importantly, how I need to approach it for it to be reliable.
First off, I needed to accept it was no AP Inspo Toyota Hilux. Its a high end, complex piece of kit with ADDITIONAL Life support systems and technology that isnt found on other units. Theres a C02 sensor. It needs calibrating and maintaining. Theres an optocon system. You have to understand how to service & maintain the fiber optic cable which will give you grief otherwise. Theres a more complex power set up with batteries in the P02 module, TPM and HP senders in addition to the main head power. They all need to be checked and replaced if low. Theres a complex life support management system that gives you fantastic information, but you need to be able to access it and understand it for it to be of benefit. I guess what Im saying is that I cant just chuck it in the back of the truck and expect it to power up and pass all the predive checks when I get to the dock if I havent taken the time to maintain it.
Its taken a mindset shift in my approach to diving it. Its an Expedition rig afterall, so frequent replacement / maintenance / inspection of critical parts should be expected. I should also expect to get alarms and issues with batteries and comms. Staying on top of it and preventative maintenance are key. So if its an expedition rig, why the 2ltr tanks?? Its supposed to have offboard gas plugged in before you jump. The electronics simply prompt low HP pressure and then prompt you for offboard. No biggie, just open the correct valve and feed that 02 straight to the head and manual block. (or dil to ADV / BOV etc). Previously my mindset was to put 3ltr tanks on my Evo and be done with it.
The benefit of all this is the Life Support information. If you take the time to ensure its all built correctly and batteries are good, then you can enjoy the feeling that comes with knowing that theres no CO2 being detected and that your stack usage is in line with your 02 consumption and that your cells are outputting correctly. I was also under utilizing the HUD and Isec display too. I now use them far more than before, taking my p02 checks from the Isec to cross reference the HUD and primary.
If you are one of those divers that gets easily frustrated when gear doesnt work as its supposed to (me), then the Sentinel will frustrate you or even drive you crazy. Take the time to appreciate why its the way it is and you might start to love it
However, I agree that parts failing from the factory is not good. For me it was HP senders. It was probably just low batteries, but I didnt have a good enough understanding of them at the time. Overall, I think the upgrade is worth it, but they do require care and attention. Dont let the senders flop around and loosen or break the cable. Zip tie them down!
Im looking forward to the next 100 hours to see what happens and whether Ive changed my mind or can continue to improve my experience with it.
First off, I needed to accept it was no AP Inspo Toyota Hilux. Its a high end, complex piece of kit with ADDITIONAL Life support systems and technology that isnt found on other units. Theres a C02 sensor. It needs calibrating and maintaining. Theres an optocon system. You have to understand how to service & maintain the fiber optic cable which will give you grief otherwise. Theres a more complex power set up with batteries in the P02 module, TPM and HP senders in addition to the main head power. They all need to be checked and replaced if low. Theres a complex life support management system that gives you fantastic information, but you need to be able to access it and understand it for it to be of benefit. I guess what Im saying is that I cant just chuck it in the back of the truck and expect it to power up and pass all the predive checks when I get to the dock if I havent taken the time to maintain it.
Its taken a mindset shift in my approach to diving it. Its an Expedition rig afterall, so frequent replacement / maintenance / inspection of critical parts should be expected. I should also expect to get alarms and issues with batteries and comms. Staying on top of it and preventative maintenance are key. So if its an expedition rig, why the 2ltr tanks?? Its supposed to have offboard gas plugged in before you jump. The electronics simply prompt low HP pressure and then prompt you for offboard. No biggie, just open the correct valve and feed that 02 straight to the head and manual block. (or dil to ADV / BOV etc). Previously my mindset was to put 3ltr tanks on my Evo and be done with it.
The benefit of all this is the Life Support information. If you take the time to ensure its all built correctly and batteries are good, then you can enjoy the feeling that comes with knowing that theres no CO2 being detected and that your stack usage is in line with your 02 consumption and that your cells are outputting correctly. I was also under utilizing the HUD and Isec display too. I now use them far more than before, taking my p02 checks from the Isec to cross reference the HUD and primary.
If you are one of those divers that gets easily frustrated when gear doesnt work as its supposed to (me), then the Sentinel will frustrate you or even drive you crazy. Take the time to appreciate why its the way it is and you might start to love it
However, I agree that parts failing from the factory is not good. For me it was HP senders. It was probably just low batteries, but I didnt have a good enough understanding of them at the time. Overall, I think the upgrade is worth it, but they do require care and attention. Dont let the senders flop around and loosen or break the cable. Zip tie them down!Im looking forward to the next 100 hours to see what happens and whether Ive changed my mind or can continue to improve my experience with it.
Chris Brown
Official CAMRA ale tester
I agree. The AP line is a really reliable jump in and dive unit.
I guess its horses for courses. Some expedition level divers want more monitoring and life support info.
What were the issues with the HP sensors? Are you talking about early stuff or optocon?
Jonas Pavletic
Mine Explorer
I guess the 3 liter tanks on the Inspo swiftly solved the problem of gas not lasting a week. Those 2 liter tanks are really a PITA on such long trips
:bondage:
I actually do miss out on bigger O2-tanks when doing long multilevel cave dives, especially when you don't really know the exact profile ahead of time. Have had to turn dives on a couple of occasions due to not bringing enough O2 in the first place. Since I don't like the idea of swimming around with a HOT O2 BO tank during the entire dive I guess I will have to bring an extra small tank next time...
Chris Brown
Official CAMRA ale tester
Whaat??!! You people do 2 long dives in a day? Are you nuts?
I can only handle 1. Then Im far too tired for another and heading to the bar ....which is right next to my dock:trophy:
I can only handle 1. Then Im far too tired for another and heading to the bar ....which is right next to my dock:trophy: