matt
Well-Known Member
Same for the old VR3, but at least we got 10 years from them. Wasn't the strap line "the only dive computer you'll ever need"?
Personally I think you've been shat-on.
Matt.
Optocon, is it worth upgrading?
- Thread starter jackdiver
- Start date
Same for the old VR3, but at least we got 10 years from them. Wasn't the strap line "the only dive computer you'll ever need"?
Personally I think you've been shat-on.
Matt.
nickb
The JJ Kid
Care to list them?
I've had to miss two dives since owning mine. One was a creeping IP that could have happened on any unit and could easily have been salvaged by swapping the first stage over. The other turned-out to be a shagged depth sensor on the Shearwater that I could still have dived but decided to sit it out to see if it could be fixed.
I know most of the JJ owners in the UK and I'm not hearing of any unresolvable issues that are forcing people to can dives. On the other hand.....
No offence Tufty but that's bollocks. I've been on plenty of boats with Sentinel divers that have had to can dives, including the boat we were both on two weeks ago.
The only diver on our Bikini trip that had to bail out, did so from a Sentinel. He's since posted his list of woes on Fishprodders. Fortunately, he managed to eke that trip of a lifetime out, but his subsequent Malin trip was a write-off.
I don't need to be crapped-on from a great height to know that I wouldn't like it.
Mike Ferguson
WTF is that?
I don't have one myself but the look on the face of the Sentinel (with optocon) diver I was with when his screen went blank at 45m with about 70 minutes of stops to do will remain forever etched in my mind. Without doubt the biggest, widest eyes I have ever seen underwater. When we got back to the surface he then proceeded to tip literally litres of water out of the counterlung which had seeped in past a loose mouthpiece. Take my hat off to him though, he stayed on the loop and manually flew the unit for over an hour watching the backup ppO2 display which was the only bit that still worked.
My own humble opinion is that VR produce nice, shiny, beautifully made systems but they are over complicated, and unreliable as a result, with probably the crappest user interface ever.
When I was a lad studying engineering one of my lecturers favourite sayings was that 'a good engineer can make something for a penny that any fool can make for a shilling'. sad but true. Just because something is shiny and made out of expensive stainless tube and machined Delrin doesn't mean it will work any better than something made out of rubber hoses and injection moulded plastic as long as it's done right. Sometimes the most elegant design solutions appear simple and obvious, however, making something simple and cheap that works is often a damn sight harder than making something complicated and expensive that doesn't.
My own humble opinion is that VR produce nice, shiny, beautifully made systems but they are over complicated, and unreliable as a result, with probably the crappest user interface ever.
When I was a lad studying engineering one of my lecturers favourite sayings was that 'a good engineer can make something for a penny that any fool can make for a shilling'. sad but true. Just because something is shiny and made out of expensive stainless tube and machined Delrin doesn't mean it will work any better than something made out of rubber hoses and injection moulded plastic as long as it's done right. Sometimes the most elegant design solutions appear simple and obvious, however, making something simple and cheap that works is often a damn sight harder than making something complicated and expensive that doesn't.
tufty
New Member
Ok nick I'll list the jj issues I've seen on boats or just before, unable to hold pos (trapped material in cl tee) HUD switch inoperable, broken adv plug in tee, leaks from various o rings, shearwater controller buttons inoperable, saft batteries failing whilst in water, cell fails.
Mateys sentinel issue on the boat nick was down to a self admitted rushed assembly and not checked before loading car. Ccr's all fail for a variety of reasons non are more reliable than others and many issues are self inflicted. I've had one dive missed due to a problem, total electronics crap out as I hit the water (water in the electronics, failed seal and can happen to any bodies) - hp sensors pack up put an analogue one on and turn the electronic one off till it can be sorted, tpm - turn it off. The sentinels not perfect, no rebreather is you pays your money and takes your choice on what's important to you. Good natured banter is entertaining, vitriolic bashing achieves nothing
Mateys sentinel issue on the boat nick was down to a self admitted rushed assembly and not checked before loading car. Ccr's all fail for a variety of reasons non are more reliable than others and many issues are self inflicted. I've had one dive missed due to a problem, total electronics crap out as I hit the water (water in the electronics, failed seal and can happen to any bodies) - hp sensors pack up put an analogue one on and turn the electronic one off till it can be sorted, tpm - turn it off. The sentinels not perfect, no rebreather is you pays your money and takes your choice on what's important to you. Good natured banter is entertaining, vitriolic bashing achieves nothing
nickb
The JJ Kid
The first two sounds like an early adopter and the rest sounds like shoddy maintenance. I know of only one person that has been unhappy with his decision to buy a JJ and even he would consider it more reliable than a Sentinel.
I don't doubt that there are some reliable Sentinels out there and I'm very happy for the owners, some of whom are my mates. I hate to see anyone spunking a large sum of cash on something that fails to live-up to expectation. None of this is 'vitriolic bashing', it's merely observation. I've seen more Sentinels force people to can dives than ANY other CCR. The statement that 'non [sic] are more reliable than others' is statistically highly unlikely and, in my and quite a few other people's experience clearly not the case.Ccr's all fail for a variety of reasons non are more reliable than others and many issues are self inflicted. I've had one dive missed due to a problem, total electronics crap out as I hit the water (water in the electronics, failed seal and can happen to any bodies) - hp sensors pack up put an analogue one on and turn the electronic one off till it can be sorted, tpm - turn it off. The sentinels not perfect, no rebreather is you pays your money and takes your choice on what's important to you. Good natured banter is entertaining, vitriolic bashing achieves nothing
Iain3
Big Member
My friend had a problem on his first trip away on a JJ, solonoid free flowing. He continues the trip, I think they disconnected the solonoid and he ran the rebreather manually. He has also had a few problems with LEDs failing on the HUD, as has another friend on his JJ.
In two years I have missed one dive on my Inspo Classic, due to a cell failure. However that failure happened during the great cell crises of 2011, so was a bit of an issue that lead me to buying a N@90 head.
Right now if I had an Inspo and a JJ in front of me, and the money to choose I'd go for the JJ, I don't rate any of these problems as anything more than teething issues. However I am very happy with the Inspo.
In two years I have missed one dive on my Inspo Classic, due to a cell failure. However that failure happened during the great cell crises of 2011, so was a bit of an issue that lead me to buying a N@90 head.
Right now if I had an Inspo and a JJ in front of me, and the money to choose I'd go for the JJ, I don't rate any of these problems as anything more than teething issues. However I am very happy with the Inspo.
BobKinsman
New Member
Hi guys,
I just registered so I could give my experience of Sentinel & Optocon. I have unit number 11 from the first production batch, so I have seen a lot of the teething problems with this machne.
My HP sensors lasted longer than many, though the TPM always needed attention due to corrosion on the amphenol connectors. However, 2011 was a year of "bailout now" alarms on every trip. In the end, I went for the TPM and HP upgrade, but skipped the one for the cells. This was in September last year.
The first trip out was great, with nothing but green lights. Installing the stack is nice and simple with no connectors to plug in. However, when I checked out the unit this year, prior to my first trip, the TPM was dead and the batteries on the HP sensors were very low. Back to the factory and the first advantage of optocon is that you dont have to send the head back in a great big crate.
Anyway, this problem was caused by some leaky capacitors in the early optocon units which drained the battery. New conversions and my upgraded bits shouldn't have this problem. Time will tell
This year, everything has been great, with 1 minor niggle which some might regard as my fault. I have never opened the unit overnight to dry the cells, because I've never seen any reason to, and its more of a pain than on other units. Occasionally, when I turn on the unit, the TPM won't talk to the head. I believe this is due to condensation on the flow cone interrupting the communication path. When this has happened, I turn off the TPM, do the usual prebreathe and then turn on the TPM again. Invariably it has worked OK.
The only other oddity I've noticed is that one of the HP sensors is very slow to respond. When I do the HP leak test, I usually see the HP increase by 10% or more during the first 20-30 seconds.
Overall, go for it, it's a big step forward.
I just registered so I could give my experience of Sentinel & Optocon. I have unit number 11 from the first production batch, so I have seen a lot of the teething problems with this machne.
My HP sensors lasted longer than many, though the TPM always needed attention due to corrosion on the amphenol connectors. However, 2011 was a year of "bailout now" alarms on every trip. In the end, I went for the TPM and HP upgrade, but skipped the one for the cells. This was in September last year.
The first trip out was great, with nothing but green lights. Installing the stack is nice and simple with no connectors to plug in. However, when I checked out the unit this year, prior to my first trip, the TPM was dead and the batteries on the HP sensors were very low. Back to the factory and the first advantage of optocon is that you dont have to send the head back in a great big crate.
Anyway, this problem was caused by some leaky capacitors in the early optocon units which drained the battery. New conversions and my upgraded bits shouldn't have this problem. Time will tell
This year, everything has been great, with 1 minor niggle which some might regard as my fault. I have never opened the unit overnight to dry the cells, because I've never seen any reason to, and its more of a pain than on other units. Occasionally, when I turn on the unit, the TPM won't talk to the head. I believe this is due to condensation on the flow cone interrupting the communication path. When this has happened, I turn off the TPM, do the usual prebreathe and then turn on the TPM again. Invariably it has worked OK.
The only other oddity I've noticed is that one of the HP sensors is very slow to respond. When I do the HP leak test, I usually see the HP increase by 10% or more during the first 20-30 seconds.
Overall, go for it, it's a big step forward.
nickb
The JJ Kid
Here's some more:Cheers bob a balanced review
the life of my new sentinel
the problems never stop im afraid
Andy is a mate and I'm not gloating about this regardless of what you think. I hate to see people having to put-up with shit like this. I wouldn't buy a battery from VR let alone a rebreather.
matt
Well-Known Member
One of the switches went on one of my old VR3's, £150 to fix. It's in the bin, with the battery and thankfully I shall never shop with VR again! Yippee, the freedom!
Actually I'm really pleased tufty has a decent unit - they are blooming expensive enough.
Matt.
nickb
The JJ Kid
So am I, there's no schadenfreude here.
Just my little input into this discussion. I have unit 310. With optocom. Bought it as a second hand unit with just 6 hours on it.
Only problem I have had was the hud failing due to the circuit board on them being connected with very brittle wire that can shake apart. My instuctor rang vr got a copy of the wiring diagram and super hero repkaced these usint speaker wire that is designed to take vibration.
Aside this unit has been fine. The pressure sensor issue seems to affect only the non optocom systems. With Hollis now on board I am intrested to see how this affects service and parts.
I does seem that this thread is dominated by jj owners reporting the problems they have seen others have on sentinel units?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
Only problem I have had was the hud failing due to the circuit board on them being connected with very brittle wire that can shake apart. My instuctor rang vr got a copy of the wiring diagram and super hero repkaced these usint speaker wire that is designed to take vibration.
Aside this unit has been fine. The pressure sensor issue seems to affect only the non optocom systems. With Hollis now on board I am intrested to see how this affects service and parts.
I does seem that this thread is dominated by jj owners reporting the problems they have seen others have on sentinel units?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
matt
Well-Known Member
I don't think so, there are 9 Sentinel users and only 1 JJ user as far as I can see!
Garwa
New Member
This is why they encourage us with the wired system to pay them (VR) for the upgrade which really should be coming as free upgrade as it's definitely a design error. It's like in my field if a software developer makes a design bug into system does the end-use have to pay for the hours put into the fix? Heck no! My unit #273 one of the last regular wired ones - less than two years old. And soon they don't have to even encourage as it's a must pay situation
well mines back from having some new HP's fitted, well old HP's fitted to be precise. Its caused me so much consternation and pain to have to use a pair of HP gauges instead....actually it didn't cause me any grief but i'm sure people can read that how they want. On the issue of the HP gauges I'm wondering if for those of us who don't want or can't afford the Opticon upgrade at the moment whether they can turn off the HP sensors in the handsets so we can run it with standard HP gauges instead, it'll be what i ask for IF it has to go back.
I missed one dive in 2.5 years now, touch wood, and that was when the sensors went to 400bar, but it was only an 8m dip in Sri Lanka on a very flat and battered wreck that i did a week later. It was nie to top the tan up instead.
One thing i have noticed is the level of angst raged against VR by those who don't dive or have ever dived their units (not their computers). It seems theres a lot of people about who don't own VR units that have a lot of problems with VR Units. I get the distinct impression its cool to hate VR and blast their units at every chance. Funnily enough when you point out failings in the units they dive their backs get up pretty quick.
I nearly sold my unit this year simply cos i wasn't getting enough time on it but i realised how much i enjoy diving CCR and thought fcuk it I like CCR diving too much to sell it.
I missed one dive in 2.5 years now, touch wood, and that was when the sensors went to 400bar, but it was only an 8m dip in Sri Lanka on a very flat and battered wreck that i did a week later. It was nie to top the tan up instead.
One thing i have noticed is the level of angst raged against VR by those who don't dive or have ever dived their units (not their computers). It seems theres a lot of people about who don't own VR units that have a lot of problems with VR Units. I get the distinct impression its cool to hate VR and blast their units at every chance. Funnily enough when you point out failings in the units they dive their backs get up pretty quick.
I nearly sold my unit this year simply cos i wasn't getting enough time on it but i realised how much i enjoy diving CCR and thought fcuk it I like CCR diving too much to sell it.
I was wondering to have them permenantly turned off, from memory you can turn them off but when the unit resets it goes back to a default setting.
you can complete the Pre-Dive, but you need to turn off the HP's first in the settings. It worked fine for me when i was using the unit in Sri-Lanka, took only a moment to set it up properly.
I never had any pressures showing once i'd turned off the HP's and the tick still came up, after a short interval.