Mouthpiece Retaining Head-strap
- Thread starter Paul Haynes
- Start date
Paul Haynes
CCRX Supporter
Hi All
Back from Rebreather Forum 3 and still catching up. The event itself was I felt a huge success and a minor personal success was managing to raise the profile of the use of the mouthpiece retaining strap. This was greatly assisted by Michael Menduno who gave a 'state of the nation' talk on where the tech / rebreather industry has got to, or not in many cases, since the last Rebreather Forum organised by him back in 1996. Back then rebreathers were just making an entry onto the civilian diving market with various manufacturers promising that production units were just around the corner. One of the recommendations of RF2 back in ‘96 was the use of a full-face mask or a mouthpiece retaining strap.
Full face masks were unlikely to catch on in the recreational diving market, however, unfortunately both the training agencies and manufactures never embraced the retaining strap concept and recommendation despite every military rebreather using them. Instead open circuit diving methodology was applied despite the considerable additional risk of loosing consciousness when using a rebreather compared to open circuit. Failure to implement this ’96 RF2 recommendation I feel was an opportunity lost. If from that point in history onwards, every manufacturer sold a rebreather with a retaining strap as standard and the training agencies embodied its use within their standards, their use would be part of our rebreather diving culture and the rebreather fatality list in my opinion would likely not be as long as it is today. The DAN data showing that the vast majority of rebreather fatalities reviewed were as a result of drowning, was confirmed by the Swedish government diving accident investigation department who presented at FR3. The most recent Swedish fatality was an allergic reaction to nuts, LoC resulted, the mouthpiece was dropped and asphyxiation occurred before rescue by the buddy could be implemented. Another example of a survivable event had the airway been protected. I hope therefore that those charged with developing future rebreather safety standards do not miss this opportunity a second time around, particularly as rebreathers are now entering the recreational diving market where personal diving skills, knowledge and general health is likely to be lower amongst this sector of the diving population.
As I have repeatedly mentioned, I do not pretend for a moment that a retaining strap offers a guarantee of survival, it simply provides mitigation against the risk of drowning by limiting the likelihood of you encountering it, thus increasing your chances of surviving a LoC event underwater. A recommendation of RB3 is now to investigate and research the subject with a number of us given actions to support this recommendation. To that end, if any of you out there have an account of a rebreather diver that survived a LoC event as a result of a retaining strap protecting the airway from flooding, please let me know.
Rgds Paul
Back from Rebreather Forum 3 and still catching up. The event itself was I felt a huge success and a minor personal success was managing to raise the profile of the use of the mouthpiece retaining strap. This was greatly assisted by Michael Menduno who gave a 'state of the nation' talk on where the tech / rebreather industry has got to, or not in many cases, since the last Rebreather Forum organised by him back in 1996. Back then rebreathers were just making an entry onto the civilian diving market with various manufacturers promising that production units were just around the corner. One of the recommendations of RF2 back in ‘96 was the use of a full-face mask or a mouthpiece retaining strap.
Full face masks were unlikely to catch on in the recreational diving market, however, unfortunately both the training agencies and manufactures never embraced the retaining strap concept and recommendation despite every military rebreather using them. Instead open circuit diving methodology was applied despite the considerable additional risk of loosing consciousness when using a rebreather compared to open circuit. Failure to implement this ’96 RF2 recommendation I feel was an opportunity lost. If from that point in history onwards, every manufacturer sold a rebreather with a retaining strap as standard and the training agencies embodied its use within their standards, their use would be part of our rebreather diving culture and the rebreather fatality list in my opinion would likely not be as long as it is today. The DAN data showing that the vast majority of rebreather fatalities reviewed were as a result of drowning, was confirmed by the Swedish government diving accident investigation department who presented at FR3. The most recent Swedish fatality was an allergic reaction to nuts, LoC resulted, the mouthpiece was dropped and asphyxiation occurred before rescue by the buddy could be implemented. Another example of a survivable event had the airway been protected. I hope therefore that those charged with developing future rebreather safety standards do not miss this opportunity a second time around, particularly as rebreathers are now entering the recreational diving market where personal diving skills, knowledge and general health is likely to be lower amongst this sector of the diving population.
As I have repeatedly mentioned, I do not pretend for a moment that a retaining strap offers a guarantee of survival, it simply provides mitigation against the risk of drowning by limiting the likelihood of you encountering it, thus increasing your chances of surviving a LoC event underwater. A recommendation of RB3 is now to investigate and research the subject with a number of us given actions to support this recommendation. To that end, if any of you out there have an account of a rebreather diver that survived a LoC event as a result of a retaining strap protecting the airway from flooding, please let me know.
Rgds Paul
Simon Mitchell
Well-Known Member
Hello Paul,
I personally agree with everything you say. The RB3 consensus discussion took the view that "research" did not necessarily mean experimental studies, and could include compiling a convincing case series (of the sort you are soliciting here). However, if we are to be objective about this, what we should really be asking for are any cases in which a diver went unconscious whilst using a retaining strap irrespective of the outcome (not just where they survived). We should discuss a systematic way of compiling this case series. I think it would make a good project for a naval resident doctor who is looking for a project. Most of the relevant events will be in naval divers I suspect.
Simon M
Thanks, Paul, for starting this thread.
I now have a mouthpiece retaining strap fitting to my loop because of it.
Me too. I used mine for the first time on Friday and it's very useful. Holds he mouthpiece in well and I can relax my grip.
One thing I found was it does push against my gums and I suspect on very long dives could lead to some irritation. Not sure yet how to get round this.
Dave Sutton
Banned
Glad for the positive experience. Loosen the thing up a notch if it's bugging your gums. They do not need to be as tight as some pull them. If it's causing the mouthpiece to dig into your meat, it's probably a quarter of an inch too tight.
Assume the mouthpiece fits as well? If you have a hot-spot on a mouthpiece where it chafes, you can freeze the mouthpiece hard and then use sandpaper or a Dremel with a sandpaper drum installed to gently smooth any place that is of bother. It can be done with the MP at room temperture, but freezing them makes it a tad easier.
Best,
Dave
.
Changing how far up or down the head strap is on the back of the head can change the 'angle of attack' and therefore where it presses when nipped tight.
mikel-deko
Member
This weekend i've been testing the Draeger gag-strap in my inspi.
We have been cave diving and scooter testing. Two days, more than 4000 mtrs, some of them full speed 80 mtrs/min.
It has been fantastic to have the gag-strap, no tension on my mouth or teeth no water in the loop, great.
BTW, we have been testing the Bonex, Cuda650 and the Diver-tug (spanish made strog scooter)
My two cents.
Mikel
We have been cave diving and scooter testing. Two days, more than 4000 mtrs, some of them full speed 80 mtrs/min.
It has been fantastic to have the gag-strap, no tension on my mouth or teeth no water in the loop, great.
BTW, we have been testing the Bonex, Cuda650 and the Diver-tug (spanish made strog scooter)
My two cents.
Mikel
Paul Haynes
CCRX Supporter
Glad to hear of yours and other members positive experience. This issue seams to be gathering momentum and the message gradually spreading. Thanks to yourself and others for posting your comments, which are contributing to encouraging others to give it go. Rgds Paul
Rod Macdonald
New Member
Hi Paul - well done for raising this issue and getting people discussing it internationally.
For my part, I once had a diver black out on me in 45msw a few miles offshore. I managed to get to him before he relaxed and dropped his mouthpiece and was able to recover him to the surface safely enough. There is no doubt that had I not seen him in time and he'd dropped his mouthpiece we'd have been involved in a whole different scenario. A gag strap would have been of immeasurable help in that event.
Since you raised the issue with me a year or so ago I've adopted your advice and have used a couple of different straps. It felt a little bit akward to start with - but now I don't notice it and would feel exposed, even vulnerable, without it.
Keep up the good work.
Rod
For my part, I once had a diver black out on me in 45msw a few miles offshore. I managed to get to him before he relaxed and dropped his mouthpiece and was able to recover him to the surface safely enough. There is no doubt that had I not seen him in time and he'd dropped his mouthpiece we'd have been involved in a whole different scenario. A gag strap would have been of immeasurable help in that event.
Since you raised the issue with me a year or so ago I've adopted your advice and have used a couple of different straps. It felt a little bit akward to start with - but now I don't notice it and would feel exposed, even vulnerable, without it.
Keep up the good work.
Rod
Dave Sutton
Banned
Bravo!
With all due respect, this is probably the single most important conversation that has taken place here on the forum. It's a conversation that might literally save a human life. It's very gratifying to see that people who originally resisted the idea are now diving the straps, and enjoying positive results from a comfort standpoint... never mind the safety protections the straps offer. I think we would all enjoy hearing more real-world feedback from as many divers as possible who have used the straps.
Universal acceptance would definately save lives...
Dave
.
With all due respect, this is probably the single most important conversation that has taken place here on the forum. It's a conversation that might literally save a human life. It's very gratifying to see that people who originally resisted the idea are now diving the straps, and enjoying positive results from a comfort standpoint... never mind the safety protections the straps offer. I think we would all enjoy hearing more real-world feedback from as many divers as possible who have used the straps.
Universal acceptance would definately save lives...
Dave
.
Paul Haynes
CCRX Supporter
what we should really be asking for are any cases in which a diver went unconscious whilst using a retaining strap irrespective of the outcome
Hi Simon, yes agree with your clarification regarding the question we should be asking. Rgds Paul
Hi Simon, yes agree with your clarification regarding the question we should be asking. Rgds Paul
PeterN
Active Member
The Draeger one works well. Mine was off a rEvo. Just a hint, try not doing it too tight. I have found that it takes little pressure to keep things in place and comphy and still allow for removal if needed.
Peter
Paul Haynes
CCRX Supporter
Thanks for the support Rod and for sharing your story with the membership. Rgds Paul
SimonK
Member
I have always been resistant to adding 'stuff' to my unit but decided to give strap a go during last week in Scapa. It was a lot less hassle than I thought it would be. I can't say I noticed any greater (or lesser) comfort in the water but it certainly kept the mouthpiece in and watertight when I deliberately relaxed and tried to let it fall.
Simon
Simon
mikel-deko
Member
Paul Haynes
CCRX Supporter
Hi Mark
Great to finally have the chance to spend some time with you at RF3. Now you have had the time to trial it, how about sharing your experience of a retaining strap with us. Rgds Paul
