How long will you let the scrubber sit
- Thread starter opheim
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gianaameri
gian @ gian.ameri.name
Well, all very interesting comments, including the usual internet forum *** *** below.
If that is the case, Matt, and in any event, I figured out why I had the CO2 hit I did, after playing around with Sofnolime and water.
Sofnolime + water is the normal reaction in your scrubber, that is what happens, like it or not, and no need for a flood for that to happen.
I still need to test the sample for CO2 absorption (I made 3, one with too little water. one with too much water, and one with the right amount of water), but that is now secondary.
Sofnolime seems to respond to water liker cement.
It hardens, given the right conditions.
It lumps (sure, nothing new... I know, seen the lumps before doing the tessts, but never replicated them adding water).
Similar to cement (not like cement, so it does not harden like cement, before the forum *** *** start drumming).
More later after I do the CO2 tests on the sample.
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matt
Well-Known Member
gianaameri
gian @ gian.ameri.name
So, the reaction of the most beaten and battered sample is at about 10% - 20% of fresh Sofnolime.
That is not the issue though.
What I believe happened to me is a very low probability event and there was CO2 bypass in the scrubber due to lump formation, after what I have seen Sofnolime does with water.
I have noted that since I hoover my scrubber (can only be done with Radial) after filling (and I fill with a fan blowing off on the Sofnolime as I pour it off the keg into the scrubber), lumping is non-existent.
...but then again, I do not let the scrubber sit in a bag or my can for a long time any more, and that could have been another factor.
Also, I use a thin absorbent sponge at the bottom to keep any water/condensation from moving about and wetting the sorb (or the head).
No proof that my CO2 incident was consequent to a number of variables bringing about by-pass from lumping. Just an opinion. It is what I believe and I accept others may have a different view.
I am happy I have a CO2 Monitor now as I suspect is the only way to mitigate such possible low probability event (temp stick and other temperature monitors are of limited use in the possible situation described above).
Off to tend to my equipment... it was a nice dive.
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barrygoss
CCRx Supporter
Forum Dum dums? (p.s. in a thread the previous posts are above, not below)
? I'm trying to work out how you didn't understand, before Matt's post, that if your scrubber can was flooded (i.e. actual water came in contact with lime) it wasn't a good idea to bin the scrubber???
The OP's post ( before your mad professor type experimentation on lime) was to ask how long they could store the scrubber before re-using.
Check out gordon hendersons explanation on CO2 capture, and use those as the limits on the scrubber duration, not storage.
A scrubber (lime) doesn't know its in a rebreather, sat in the tub, or undertaking some inane, imaginary experiment.
it absorbs CO2 at a highly scientific, known rate.
If it's in a can (i.e. isn't absorbing any CO2, and isnt flooded, but sealed in that state) where is the change to the chemical properties coming from?
I take my can from a dive, split off lungs, loop etc, turn the can upside down and put a sealing head on the scubber. (if any water comes out I'll bin the lot, not happened yet that I didn't know about on the dive)
then the scrubber is basically in stasis. it thinks it's on a dive chemically, but it's not drying out, it's not absorbing CO2, it's not doing anything.
so I can start it up whenever I like. (and if we're going to be anal about it, the latest date to restart would be the BBF date.)
If you want to push beyond the useage durations (as per gina's posts) then feel free, but you'll be ignoring the advice of Gordon, the unit's manufacturer, the CE testing, the "few" who went before you.
but I got bored of the beration in this thread a while ago, before the dum dums was mentioned.
I'm not sure that dum dums is really needed here in an adult world.
Regards.
B
gianaameri
gian @ gian.ameri.name
My scrubber was not flooded and the one-way valves were working perfectly and have used them thereafter since the incident no problem.
There was nothing until now which could have explained what happened to me.
Reading this thread and doing the silly test opened my eyes this morning: "Aha, I did not think of that!"
I may be wrong, and right or wrong I'll never know, but that is what I chose to believe, as at the moment I have no better explanation.
Forums is not an "adult" world unfortunately. They attract some of the worst people, by way of supposed anonymity, and on rare occasions some of the best... and having been through an inordinate amount of personal attacks in other forums, not to mention racial and homophobic abuse, and threats of violence, reported to the police, as you may appreciate, my patience is slightly being tested. Maybe I am just over-sensitive today, and will be better tomorrow!
P.S. I am heterosexual, but who knows why I even attracted homophobic abuse.
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matt
Well-Known Member
If the scrubber is properly packed then can we assume that swelling makes it tighter, not loser? Given the x-section shape we know that over-packing increased both WOB and chance of channelling, so you could be right, I guess.
Post a picture! I've one of a certain ninja dishwashing a lid somewhere, it's one for my collection!
I've no idea if I am a forum dum dum, but I'm quite happy with it, or not, either way. Baa.
Cheers
Matt.
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Bythesea
New Member
You are missing some essential chemistry here, the CO2 mixes with the water vapour from your breath and forms a mild boric acid, it is this that bonds with the sodium hydroxide in the soda lime, the 'water' or, to be precise, vapour is an essential part of the cycle....
BTW, I dived, I survived, 31.7M on the Eddystone, 20M viz...most excellent....... I am the living embodiment of my experiment to see if a scrubber left for two weeks was OK to use, turns out it is....
gianaameri
gian @ gian.ameri.name
In case you missed what I said, I believe it is a low probability event I suffered.
Some channelling took place due to the formation of lumps which we see all the times in scrubbers, some more, some less.
It is very easy to understand how this can happen with the rebreather and the Scrubber functioning perfectly well, if one has some prior experience diving rebreather and has observed the Sofnolime when emptying the scrubber.
I was very unlucky, you were not.
gianaameri
gian @ gian.ameri.name
I enjoy having a exchange of opinion with you, something which we could not do elsewhere, but here the atmosphere is more conducive.
Let us hope it stays that way, or it becomes impossible to have a mutually informative exchange.
The link you are looking for is here:
Login
It is a simple and rudimentary method, but works. I measure the heat generated by exposing Sofnolime to 100% CO2 and compare the reaction to some subjective baseline.
Nothing scientific, but better than nothing.
I suspect all scrubber contents swell somewhat, and the scrubber spring tensioner absorbs some of that. I suspect Sofnolime swelling is not a big issue, the issue being the clumping and the randomness at which it can occur (which means it is not preditcable).
Re: the hoover, I use a Dyson... you can find plenty of pics. on the internet of the Dyson, but you cannot hoover an Axial scrubber effectively because of the design.
I use a Radial scrubber, so you just run the hoover (smaller adapter you have for maximum suction) up and down and along the circumference one full circle (and blow off any remaining Sofnolime dust with a bit of Scuba air).
Is is very easy!
Will talk to you tomorrow... shower and dinner and some rest now.
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matt
Well-Known Member
OK, I registered and saw the pictures. I assume you mean CO2, not O2?
I'm not sure if it make a difference other than it may cause a channel, but the granules are not moving about so I'm not sure it does much other than the wetness reducing the reaction, as per the MP PDF.
LOL. Be a sport and post the picture!
Cheers
Matt.
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gianaameri
gian @ gian.ameri.name
I have not breached the T&C of any forum, and I am not banned anywhere.
I have banned some forums from bringing up my name in a manner which is defamatory and derogatory, either directly or by associating me to third parties whom they mock and defame "for sport" and "commercial reasons" - parties with whom I have never had any association.
Please DO NOT repeat the allegation that I have been banned anywhere insofar I have not broken the T&C anywhere - and even if I or anybody else had, it has nothing to do with CCRX.
I believe this is not the place to discuss this, so let us move on.
I do not need to post the picture of a Dyson for sport or any other reason. You are not familiar how a radial scrubber works and the procedure to remove the Sofnolime dust with a hoover. Some good cave divers do it, and there are some youtube or vimeo videos on the subject by them (far more experienced and better cave divers than I am).
Yes, I mean CO2.
I got no clue what the granules do inside a scrubber, but I suspect the lumps of Sofnolime which sometimes form, in some scrubbers more than others, were the culprit in my CO2 incident.
Not the rebreather fault, or mine, just very bad luck.
Hope the above covers all points you raise.
Nite nite.
barrygoss
CCRx Supporter
Apologies, (thats got to have been the most mature debate you've seen outside work though ;-) )
I'm out, provided all play ball as requested
Regards all.
B
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gianaameri
gian @ gian.ameri.name
Soooooo, back on talking about rebreathers which is what I enjoy doing.
I found the video which discusses the topic of hoovering the scrubber to reduce clumping - when the scrubber is being stored and used over several days.
The configuration in the video is interesting because amongst other things is the same as I am using as a concept, not the same individual components, I use my own brand which is "DIS" - Do-It-S t r o k e :thumbsup: .
CCR Explorer Brett Hemphill and his modified KISS Classic on Vimeo
I found the video which discusses the topic of hoovering the scrubber to reduce clumping - when the scrubber is being stored and used over several days.
The configuration in the video is interesting because amongst other things is the same as I am using as a concept, not the same individual components, I use my own brand which is "DIS" - Do-It-S t r o k e :thumbsup: .
CCR Explorer Brett Hemphill and his modified KISS Classic on Vimeo
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matt
Well-Known Member
Interesting video, I've never encountered the hoovering of the scrubber before. Until this video I assumed it was a cleaning (after use) thing, but implication is that the material is hoovered before it is packed, right?
Matt.
SoggyBottoms
CCRX Supporter
wtf has all this to do with JJ's?
can all this bollox be moved to a new thread please
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
can all this bollox be moved to a new thread please
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
matt
Well-Known Member
I asked the same at #44, is there anything about the JJ in the whole thread (I'd say not!).
lizardland
Active Member
I'm not sure there is a section headed bollox but it is certainly worth considering creating one.