CO2 Monitor (End-tidal) - good news

gianaameri

gian @ gian.ameri.name
I have in the last year or so experimented with a novel CO2 sensor mounted on the inhale side, in a modified Meg inhale counterlung, and it works very well.

No false alarms, and accurate enough for the purpose of alerting the diver when CO2 increases over a pre-set alarm amount of choice (i.e. 0.5%).

It is fairly resistant to humidity induced errors, provided it is inserted in the rebreather just before the dive, and removed from the rebreather after the dive (i.e. it is not left unnecessarily exposed to the loop humidity during transport and storage), and of course is placed in a proper location in the rebreather (not where the O2 Cells normally are).

Provided the above pre-cautions are used, it can go several hours without drifting away (usually up when it drifts) from humidity.

The product is now sold and available from a well known and reputable manufacturer, but it will not work for a number of reasons as an end-tidal CO2 monitor (i.e. on the exhale side).

I'd like to give heads-up to all homebuilders (and rebreather manufacturers) that I am working (thanks to a tip from a fellow diver through internet forums) on an end-tidal CO2 monitor based on a different technology and research. It utilises a dermal infrared sensor made by Sentec.

Recent research has shown that the measurement of transcutaneous carbon dioxide at the infraclavicular site is feasible with a digital sensor and has a good correlation with the carbon dioxide values obtained from the arterial blood gas.

I have no commercial interest in diving and the rebreathers business and I am sharing this "tip" publicly so that the more people start experimenting with this technology for our application, the sooner it will become available to all, the cheaper and the better it will be.
 
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I've wondered for years if anyone had ever tried the transcutaneous CO2 monitoring but never received answers when e-mailing or posting on forums. To me it's always seemed like the obvious answer since it would allow monitoring of both co2 retention and scrubber breakthrough without dealing with the issues that arise with the end-tidal monitors.

The ones I use at work are accurate enough though perhaps a bit on the slow side. On the other hand, our monitoring technology is from the early eighties and I would expect modern units to be far better.

It's great to hear that someone's working on it. Please keep us updated.
 
I have in the last year or so experimented with a novel CO2 sensor mounted on the inhale side, in a modified Meg inhale counterlung, and it works very well.

No false alarms, and accurate enough for the purpose of alerting the diver when CO2 increases over a pre-set alarm amount of choice (i.e. 0.5%).

It is fairly resistant to humidity induced errors, provided it is inserted in the rebreather just before the dive, and removed from the rebreather after the dive (i.e. it is not left unnecessarily exposed to the loop humidity during transport and storage), and of course is placed in a proper location in the rebreather (not where the O2 Cells normally are).

Provided the above pre-cautions are used, it can go several hours without drifting away (usually up when it drifts) from humidity.

The product is now sold and available from a well known and reputable manufacturer, but it will not work for a number of reasons as an end-tidal CO2 monitor (i.e. on the exhale side).

I'd like to give heads-up to all homebuilders (and rebreather manufacturers) that I am working (thanks to a tip from a fellow diver through internet forums) on an end-tidal CO2 monitor based on a different technology and research. It utilises a dermal infrared sensor made by Sentec.

Recent research has shown that the measurement of transcutaneous carbon dioxide at the infraclavicular site is feasible with a digital sensor and has a good correlation with the carbon dioxide values obtained from the arterial blood gas.

I have no commercial interest in diving and the rebreathers business and I am sharing this "tip" publicly so that the more people start experimenting with this technology for our application, the sooner it will become available to all, the cheaper and the better it will be.

Can you direct me to the sensor you ate refering to?
 
I'd assume it's this one if you mean the transcutaneous monitor. You'll have to copy/paste a bit since I can't post URLs yet. There are plenty of brands available however, the technology has been around for at least 40 years.

sentec.ch/products/sentec-digital-monitoring-system-sdms.html
 
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Can you direct me to the sensor you ate refering to?

One is sold by TEMC (Italy). I enclose pic. of my test (and final) contraption. The whole development phase and testing is documented on my website forum including lengthy videos of actual dives (far too large files to put anywhere else). Everything I do I just document it there for my future reference (so there is the whole picture/video history of my configuration, tests, trials and errors...).

The other is made by Sentec.
 
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One is sold by TEMC (Italy). I enclose pic. of my test (and final) contraption. The whole development phase and testing is documented on my website forum including lengthy videos of actual dives (far too large files to put anywhere else). Everything I do I just document it there for my future reference (so there is the whole picture/video history of my configuration, tests, trials and errors...).

The other is made by Sentec.
Looking on the TEMC site I can not find provider/supplier for the NDIR CO2 sensor. It seems promising and would want to surce one. Do you remember what the price of the sensor was?
 
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Looking on the TEMC site I can not find provider/supplier for the NDIR CO2 sensor. It seems promising and would want to surce one. Do you remember what the price of the sensor was?

The overall project cost me in the region of Euro 800 - 900 (largely by trial and error), but you'd be able to source a finished kit or components a lot cheaper than that.

Try contact Eugenio Mongelli at TEMC first and make a deal. I am confident for a price he will supply what you need. If that does not work, drop me a PM. There is a patent number inscribed on the sensor itself.

The sensor does not work as an O2 cell sensor, and it has a board itself and a 6 pin connector, of which only 4 are used (off the top of my head). You can glean more of the components and connections and developments from the pictures on [my site] under "Experimental Rebreathers."

The unedited (hence long) first test dive pre-HUD which shows how the contraption works is here:

rebreathermallorca.com/video/CO2Sensorv14/CO2Sensortestdive.mp4 (maybe easier to download first and then play it from the HDD).

It is a big file, so it will take a while and fast ADSL to open and stream.
 
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The overall project cost me in the region of Euro 800 - 900 (largely by trial and error), but you'd be able to source a finished kit or components a lot cheaper than that.

Try contact Eugenio Mongelli at TEMC first and make a deal. I am confident for a price he will supply what you need. If that does not work, drop me a PM. There is a patent number inscribed on the sensor itself.

The sensor does not work as an O2 cell sensor, and it has a board itself and a 6 pin connector, of which only 4 are used (off the top of my head). You can glean more of the components and connections and developments from the pictures on rebreathermallorca.com under "Experimental Rebreathers."

The unedited (hence long) first test dive pre-HUD which shows how the contraption works is here:

rebreathermallorca.com/video/CO2Sensorv14/CO2Sensortestdive.mp4 (maybe easier to download first and then play it from the HDD).

It is a big file, so it will take a while and fast ADSL to open and stream.
5 connectors, one analog output and digital output.
Can you send me more details about the sensor digital output?
Let me see if it could be included in one of my projects..
 
5 connectors, one analog output and digital output.
Can you send me more details about the sensor digital output?
Let me see if it could be included in one of my projects..

All I have which is not third-party IP I have put here:

rebreathermallorca.com/forum/index.php?topic=100.msg241#new
 
All I have which is not third-party IP I have put here:

rebreathermallorca.com/forum/index.php?topic=100.msg241#new

this link directs me to your forum with videos, does this mean you can not geave more info?

I am still downloading the video.

Igor P
 
this link directs me to your forum with videos, does this mean you can not geave more info?

I am still downloading the video.

Igor P

You will find the forum link pics. and videos more useful because they are done on land, so you see more of bits, pieces, connections...

The only other info. which is not strictly third-party IP (I have no legal obligation, but it is not appropriate to publish IP stuff) is this:

The sensor outputs actual CO2 readings, compensated for temperature in the range -20C and +50C.
• Typical resolution for 0 5000 ppm sensor is 50 ppm from 0 to 2500 ppm, then 100 ppm up to full
scale
• Temperature & Humidity working range
o -20 °C to 50 °C (-4°F to 122°F)
o Temperature performance:
o ± 10% of reading up to 50% FSD and ± 15% of reading from 50% to 100% FSD over the
range -20°C to +50°C (-4°F to 122°F)
o Storage temperature range: -20°C to +50°C (-4°F to 122°F)
o 0 to 95% RH, non-condensing
• Warm-up Time
o To final zero ± 0.2% of range : 1 minute @ 20°C (68°F) ambient (operational)
o 10 minutes (for maximum accuracy)
• Accuracy at ambient pressure (tipical 1013 mbar)
o sensor linearity at ambient temperature is ± 2% FSD or ± 10% of the reading which ever is
greater.
o Response Time T90: <30s @ 20°C (68°F) ambient
o gas flow rates kept below 600 cc/minute
o Zero Repeatability: ± 2% of full scale @ 20°C (68°F) ambient
o Span Repeatability: ± 2% of full scale @ 20°C (68°F) ambient
o Long term zero drift: ± 1% of full scale / month @ 20°C (68°F) ambient
 
this link directs me to your forum with videos, does this mean you can not geave more info?

I am still downloading the video.

Igor P

When you have downloaded it can you shrink it in Move Maker or something? Perhaps, gian, it is OK to share via youtube?
 
You will find the forum link pics. and videos more useful because they are done on land, so you see more of bits, pieces, connections...

The only other info. which is not strictly third-party IP (I have no legal obligation, but it is not appropriate to publish IP stuff) is this:

The sensor outputs actual CO2 readings, compensated for temperature in the range -20C and +50C.
• Typical resolution for 0 5000 ppm sensor is 50 ppm from 0 to 2500 ppm, then 100 ppm up to full
scale
• Temperature & Humidity working range
o -20 °C to 50 °C (-4°F to 122°F)
o Temperature performance:
o ± 10% of reading up to 50% FSD and ± 15% of reading from 50% to 100% FSD over the
range -20°C to +50°C (-4°F to 122°F)
o Storage temperature range: -20°C to +50°C (-4°F to 122°F)
o 0 to 95% RH, non-condensing
• Warm-up Time
o To final zero ± 0.2% of range : 1 minute @ 20°C (68°F) ambient (operational)
o 10 minutes (for maximum accuracy)
• Accuracy at ambient pressure (tipical 1013 mbar)
o sensor linearity at ambient temperature is ± 2% FSD or ± 10% of the reading which ever is
greater.
o Response Time T90: <30s @ 20°C (68°F) ambient
o gas flow rates kept below 600 cc/minute
o Zero Repeatability: ± 2% of full scale @ 20°C (68°F) ambient
o Span Repeatability: ± 2% of full scale @ 20°C (68°F) ambient
o Long term zero drift: ± 1% of full scale / month @ 20°C (68°F) ambient

I found some other NDIR CO2 sensors and controlers. Will see if I find some betther regarding performance. Will watch the video to see if something helpfule is there. Fom pictures I belive I know how you put together the monitor. Not bad.
 
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