ANDI withdraws support for rEvo? Posted to the ISC facebook group.

S

s115

Member
Any idea what the go with the below is? Was posted on ISC fbook group an hour ago. Sounds vehement.


Christian Massaad
1 hr
Important announcement:
Effective 18 June 2014, ANDI International withdraws support for the rEvo product. We will no longer offer any further cooperation with this company nor after a 60 day transition, offer any certification on product manufactured by the rEvo company.
 
I agree, there is an undertone IMO.

The reason given by Christian really makes no sense.

However, at the end of the day its their business and they can do what they like...
 
Apparently the ANDI standards and the manufacturers view on training don't match. Plenty of other well known agencies to chose from. Let's go back to diving :)
 
"Because we deem that some requirement of the course that are asked for and insisted upon on by the manufacturer as unreasonable and unsafe! we prefer not to start a discussion over it, it is just to inform the public of ANDI's decision."
 
One point is that rEVO insist on a diver reaching 30m on their training, ANDI don't want to support this. Personally I can't see an issue with it.
 
s115 said:
Any idea what the go with the below is? Was posted on ISC fbook group an hour ago. Sounds vehement.


Christian Massaad
1 hr
Important announcement:
Effective 18 June 2014, ANDI International withdraws support for the rEvo product. We will no longer offer any further cooperation with this company nor after a 60 day transition, offer any certification on product manufactured by the rEvo company.
Click to expand...

well.. this is all very weard, but since it was posted on Facebook, (and I'm not on Facebook), so I can only reply here:

1 I have yet not had any official announcement from ANDI International.
2 I am in discussion with this person on 2 topics:
A the reason why I am not making him an IT on rEvo
B the fact that he does not want to follow the rEvo course procedures in conjuction with the ANDI procedures (where ANDI and rEvo made an agreement years ago that the last 2 dives in the course would be make to 30m depth, so to comply with both the rEvo standard (minimum 30m) and the ANDI standard (max 30m)

the fact that he puts a post on Facebook without telling me anything about it makes me wonder what the real reasons are...

to be continued... or maybe not :-)

Paul
 
Yeah, sounds pretty stupid to me. More appropriate to an official release and not a fbook post. "we prefer not to start a discussion over it" but announce on social media? because no one discusses anything on social media!
 
s115 said:
Yeah, sounds pretty stupid to me. More appropriate to an official release and not a fbook post. "we prefer not to start a discussion over it" but announce on social media? because no one discusses anything on social media!
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And the first announcement was made on Buy & Sell rebreathers worldwide -page rather than something more official page.
 
I became more and more interested about this. For some reason my criticism towards ANDI was removed. I was asking why this information is posted to random groups rather making a public press release on their website. I got answer that web masters update website and this was fastest way. Well. About 24hours later information is still not found on their official websites (Either HQ nor Europe) or their HQ's Facebook page.

So there must be something more that is not released to public. Why make a such a panic rather handling this as professional manner this kind of information should be released.

EDIT: An for sure. Just writing that this is unprofessional and asking why this is not released on their official sites I got banned.
 
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That is not handled in a professional manner. Ceasing their cooperation does not have to be annouced like that. Paul R. would not have handled it like that if he was withdrawing support from them, I am sure.

It strongly smells of someone with too big an ego getting their panties in a twist....
The whole tech-industry in generel is such a pissy amateur place, for know-it-alls which should just take a chill-pill :-)
 
Hanssing said:
That is not handled in a professional manner. Ceasing their cooperation does not have to be annouced like that. Paul R. would not have handled it like that if he was withdrawing support from them, I am sure.

It strongly smells of someone with too big an ego getting their panties in a twist....
The whole tech-industry in generel is such a pissy amateur place, for know-it-alls which should just take a chill-pill :-)
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+1
 
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Anyone who actually thought that a deadbeat NGO's thats only purpose to exist is to promote its instructors to teach scuba diving and collect money for profit from said instructors and students would be a professional entity who does things "right" absolutely needs a reality check IMHO. Sadly, I think there is quite few even tech divers who can not see past this smoke and mirrors advertisement screen how crappy these installations are. Many outdated and horrible instructional books that we read during classes would be the first hint..

These types of arguments is just something that will happen more and more as rebreather manufacturers come out from garage and move to operate more like real factories with more solid funding backgrounds. They will stomp their feet around these NGOs and due various liabilities force the dive teaching NGOs to instruct is certain level of competence and oversee, that their products are instructed properly during the class. Anyone who has followed the industry, men who actually have managed to kill their students during the class or after the class with bad quality teaching still continue to teach in almost every major agency so any claims that majority of these NGO dive instruction bodies are able to self regulate themselves is rather long shot.

And how "respectable" instructional NGO like ANDI handles a disagreement with manufacturer, facebook threats and announcements, speaks volumes about average quality of technical diving agency, its leadership / board and lastly, owner(s).
 
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skoskinen said:
Anyone who actually thought that a deadbeat NGO's thats only purpose to exist is to promote its instructors to teach scuba diving and collect money for profit from said instructors and students would be a professional entity who does things "right" absolutely needs a reality check IMHO. Sadly, I think there is quite few even tech divers who can not see past this smoke and mirrors advertisement screen how crappy these installations are. Many outdated and horrible instructional books that we read during classes would be the first hint..

These types of arguments is just something that will happen more and more as rebreather manufacturers come out from garage and move to operate more like real factories with more solid funding backgrounds. They will stomp their feet around these NGOs and due various liabilities force the dive teaching NGOs to instruct is certain level of competence and oversee, that their products are instructed properly during the class. Anyone who has followed the industry, men who actually have managed to kill their students during the class or after the class with bad quality teaching still continue to teach in almost every major agency so any claims that majority of these NGO dive instruction bodies are able to self regulate themselves is rather long shot.

And how "respectable" instructional NGO like ANDI handles a disagreement with manufacturer, facebook threats and announcements, speaks volumes about average quality of technical diving agency, its leadership / board and lastly, owner(s).
Click to expand...

well, in the mean time I got a letter from ANDI International, mentioning some reasons but they seem quite 'unreal' to me, so I asked explanation. I will hold off to any comment until I got a professional answer regarding what happened.
what did happen is that the announcement was publisched on nearly all social media regarding to technical diving. this does not only have an impact on dive instructors, but also on people working with dive shops, retailers, clients that visit the shops etc. I am under the impression that ANDI international is not aware of the impact it has in the field. Maybe there is a difference between Europe and USA?
 
Have you spoke to Andrew yet? ;-)

I'm really surprised that you weren't contacted first Paul. It seems a little weird how that got out. It would seem like an apology would be necessary as any business should know not to air this type of stuff before the parties involved are told.

Dave Sutton has even been involved in this. It must be pretty big news.


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