ANDI withdraws support for rEvo? Posted to the ISC facebook group.

jradomski said:
ANDI started CCR training back around '92 or so.. It was not mixed gas CCR training.. but that excercise was also in all the mixed gas classes.. I do not know exactly when it was removed.. I remember moving it out of the instructor procedures (after discussions with several of the CCR ITS of the time) sometime early 2000s - probably around 2001 is my best guess as that time we started getting instructors in much more remote areas.. AGAIN this excercise was done on an OC gas not the loop.
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thanks for the reply ,
 
jradomski said:
simon,
Non pressurized aircraft are certified for use at altitudes of up to 15,000. Above this altitude, the design change, 2 things are of concern, the engine performance drops so they go to a different type of engine, and the use of oxygen would have to be mandated without pressurization as most people who live at lower altitudes would be having some issues .. Do quick check about beginning skydiving, most of the better schools bring first timers up to 13,500 to do their jumps.. the po2 difference between this and 15k is minor... You do experinece many of the symptoms but people aren't passing out or dying left and right.. its accepted as safe.. Our bigger concern is doing any type of real work when exposed to the low po2s.. without living at altitude, we just can't handle it..
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Hi again Joe,

I'm not quite sure what your answer adds up to. Your original point appeared to equate what Sutton advocates to a level of hypoxia sanctioned by the FAA for pilots in routine unpressurized flights. Sutton himself, in another thread on this site, describes rendering his subjects progressively more hypoxic until they start to exhibit impairment in "word and math problems". I reiterate my scepticism that the FAA would sanction a level of hypoxia that caused word and math problems to be acceptable as routine for pilots.

A point we have not addressed in this thread, but which I raised in the earlier debate on this matter, is that the very good safety record of hypoxia training in aviation and the military may stem not only from the strict safety procedures they adhere to, but also from the high level of selection and health surveillance applied to aircrew and other participants in such training. This is not replicated in the wider world of diving. It is not clear whether this would result in a higher incidence problems if hypoxia or CO2 exposures were part of routine training of divers. It is certainly a plausible concern.

Simon

Simon M
 
Thanks for all the info everyone. Could someone clear up why rEvo was pulled from ANDI? Was it purely reaction to Paul pulling an instructor card? I got that DS did put a student through a hypoxia drill. I was just trying to understand why DS doing that caused ANDI to drop rEvo?
 
There is a bunch of different stories going around I would wait until the all facts are out. Personally after all the stories I'm hearing about. I wonder what ANDI knew about some of these hypoxia test going on. All this talk about Air Force testing on hypoxia means nothing on a rebreather IMO tell that to the guy that forgets to turn on his o2 bottle, can you really feel hypoxia?
 
Whether you can learn to detect hypoxia symptoms occurring would be a great test for Simon to include with his CO2 one when it gets done.
 
alexasigno said:
Whether you can learn to detect hypoxia symptoms occurring would be a great test for Simon to include with his CO2 one when it gets done.
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Hello,

Off topic, but the first two days of our randomised blinded study of the efficacy of detecting CO2 scrubber problems by performing a 5 minute pre-breathe takes place on the weekend after next. The results will be presented for the first time at Eurotek along with the results of a study I have just completed (on two expeditions to Bikini) to determine whether divers retain CO2 during long decompressions. This was an attempt to better understand the risk of oxygen toxicity when CNS percentages are high on deco.

Simon M
 
s115 said:
Any idea what the go with the below is? Was posted on ISC fbook group an hour ago. Sounds vehement.


Christian Massaad
1 hr
Important announcement:
Effective 18 June 2014, ANDI International withdraws support for the rEvo product. We will no longer offer any further cooperation with this company nor after a 60 day transition, offer any certification on product manufactured by the rEvo company.
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As i understand the situation Christian asked Paul for a 75% discount on a Mini Titanium with full RMS and Paul told him to f##k off ;)


ATB

Mark


PS I could have just made that up :D
 
It's like this big sandbox where the kids start tossing sand in each others eyes....
 
jradomski said:
simon,
Non pressurized aircraft are certified for use at altitudes of up to 15,000. Above this altitude, the design change, 2 things are of concern, the engine performance drops so they go to a different type of engine, and the use of oxygen would have to be mandated without pressurization as most people who live at lower altitudes would be having some issues .. Do quick check about beginning skydiving, most of the better schools bring first timers up to 13,500 to do their jumps.. the po2 difference between this and 15k is minor... You do experinece many of the symptoms but people aren't passing out or dying left and right.. its accepted as safe.. Our bigger concern is doing any type of real work when exposed to the low po2s.. without living at altitude, we just can't handle it..
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These are the CAA (UK) regulations.

https://www.caa.co.uk/docs/1672/Appendix 5a.pdf

which says that O2 needs to be available if between 10 000ft and 13 000ft for more than 30mins. Above 13 000ft, then O2 needs to be used by all passengers and crew.

Whilst the point about being above 13500ft may be correct, the aircraft is only above 13 000ft for enough time to get the guys out and then back down again - limited exposure and certainly limited 'thinking' required.

Simon,

Looking forward to the results at Eurotek.

Regards
 
So we still dont know why revo was dropped by ANDI? We do know Paul pulled an instructor card from an instructor for a hypoxia drill on a couch. Paul also did'nt make an ANDI instructor an IT. So was was it a retribution for Paul's actions?
 
rEvo = Manufacturer of excellent rebreathers.

ANDI = Never heard of them, have no relevance in my diving, just another agency.

So am I bothered? You decide.
 
who cares ,

People who want to buy and dive a Revo are going to another dealer / agency .
problem solved.
 
is it ?

If you as a customer want to buy and be trained for the Revo and ANDI is not suporting it....
there is not much else left.

if some people pick a fight , why should i ( as a customer ) be part of it.
 
Remco said:
is it ?

If you as a customer want to buy and be trained for the Revo and ANDI is not suporting it....
there is not much else left.

if some people pick a fight , why should i ( as a customer ) be part of it.
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Not that I care, but you could choose not to post ;-)

I'd guess that it's a pain the ass for those instructors who paid good money to ANDI to get an Instructor Cert for the rEvo only to be told it's no longer valid. Scuba Instuctor's have a hard enough time as it is without such issues thwarting their income.

So I guess it's the instructors who care. I only have a passing interest - as a forum user. I like Paul and rEvo (but do not have one), I have only a basic knowledge of ANDI - American outfit AFAICS.

Matt.
 
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