Accident in Finland

Willing to try the Draeger mouth piece. Anyone know where to buy in Europe or preferably Sweden? It works with the shrimp BOV? Tried to google but only found online stores in the US that carries it.
 
How easy is the gag strap to remove if you need to bailout to OC? If only look into the pictures it seems not to be the easiest to do, i never seen anyone use it.
 
It's a rubber strap similar to the mask strap.

Doesn't matter how tight you pull it into place you'll be able to pull a bit more to remove it from your mouth and plug another reg.

I like mine.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
 
Robert Månsson said:
How easy is the gag strap to remove if you need to bailout to OC? If only look into the pictures it seems not to be the easiest to do, i never seen anyone use it.
Click to expand...

it is made this way, that if you really want to rip it off, the small rectangular plastics that hold the strap, will break off, and release the mouthpiece completely (intentionally made this way)

but if you do it in a normal way, you just pull down the mouthpiece, and put the regulator in your mouth
 
Igor said:
But that is not the Draeger one. Draeger seems better as it has that rubber thing that seals against the lips?
Click to expand...

Interesting that APD do one, I did not know that! (Every day is a school day)

Odd that they have gone without some kind of lip-pad/seal part, I would have thought that was the major driver to use a retaining strap of some type- anyone tried the APD version?
 
Robert Månsson said:
How easy is the gag strap to remove if you need to bailout to OC? If only look into the pictures it seems not to be the easiest to do, i never seen anyone use it.
Click to expand...

Hi Robert, there is no restriction to other gas sources. Simply access your off board demand valve, check its functionality then close off the DSV / BOV, pull it down towards your chest and replace with the alternative gas supply. I do this dozens of times every year during instruction.

It might be worth you going through the separate mouthpiece retaining strap thread to read other peoples experience.

Rgds

Paul
 
Ben Field said:
Interesting that APD do one, I did not know that! (Every day is a school day)

Odd that they have gone without some kind of lip-pad/seal part, I would have thought that was the major driver to use a retaining strap of some type- anyone tried the APD version?
Click to expand...

The CE standard expects something of this nature as part of the unit's build-state, however it is a shame it is a customer option, which is not advertised widely by APD. The actual Drager retaining strap assembly does incorporate a big pad, however in reality this does little if anything towards providing a seal, instead it provides wide structural platform to which the strap buckles and hence the strap can be secured to help minimise the strap buckle / strap rubbing across the face. Been using one since 1989 when I first learnt to dive a Drager LAR V and have used one ever since when not using a FFM.

Rgds

Paul
 
Robert M***229;nsson;143140 said:
How easy is the gag strap to remove if you need to bailout to OC? If only look into the pictures it seems not to be the easiest to do, i never seen anyone use it.
Click to expand...

I use the APD MPRS and have done lots of practicing of getting off then back on to the loop in water and found it to be straightforward.

I wear my mask strap under my hood and the MPRS over the hood so there is no interference between the straps.

Even if you forget you are wearing the MPRS, which I've done several times, when to go to remove the loop and lift it overhead it comes off really easily. Getting it back on when wearing thick gloves in water is a wee bit o a faff but easily done when you get the technique into your head.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
 
Ben Field said:
Interesting that APD do one, I did not know that! (Every day is a school day)

Odd that they have gone without some kind of lip-pad/seal part, I would have thought that was the major driver to use a retaining strap of some type- anyone tried the APD version?
Click to expand...

I use the Draeger gag strap and the lip pad does form some sort of seal when the head strap is pulled a little tighter. I tested it by completely relaxing my jaw (i.e. not biting onto mouthpiece) and seeing if the seal breaks and allows water into the loop. It seems ok, but can be better. The pad doesnt itself provide a seal, but it just keeps your lips around the mouthpiece. If you didn't have it your lips would open on a normal mouthpiece when unconscious and let lots of water flood in.
A gag strap without a lip pad in my view is completely useless. When unconscious the jaw/mouth will probably relax or tense in ways that there surely will be water ingress without such a lip-pad.

I would not use a CCR without such a Draeger gag strap.
 
Dr.Alex said:
I use the Draeger gag strap and the lip pad does form some sort of seal when the head strap is pulled a little tighter. I tested it by completely relaxing my jaw (i.e. not biting onto mouthpiece) and seeing if the seal breaks and allows water into the loop. It seems ok, but can be better. The pad doesnt itself provide a seal, but it just keeps your lips around the mouthpiece. If you didn't have it your lips would open on a normal mouthpiece when unconscious and let lots of water flood in.
A gag strap without a lip pad in my view is completely useless. When unconscious the jaw/mouth will probably relax or tense in ways that there surely will be water ingress without such a lip-pad.

I would not use a CCR without such a Draeger gag strap.
Click to expand...

Makes sense about the pad. You say "it seems OK, but can be better" . Are you confident that the gag strap will keep your airways clear if you go unconscious? Are there any real world examples of a gag strap actually working? Don´t get me wrong i am ready to order one to try it out.
 
Igor said:
Makes sense about the pad. You say "it seems OK, but can be better" . Are you confident that the gag strap will keep your airways clear if you go unconscious? Are there any real world examples of a gag strap actually working? Don´t get me wrong i am ready to order one to try it out.
Click to expand...

I tried to relax my jaw like when I doze or sleep (no biting on the mouthpiece) and it kept it all there and no leak, although some strong movement would crack the seal probably. I don't think this would be the case without the lip pad. If I did this without the gag strap the loop would fall out or leak immediately.

No idea if violent seizures would keep it all sealed like a FFM, but the loop seems firmly in place. Better than nothing. Actually I like it since I don't have to worry about the loop going anywhere when things get hectic.

I'd like to check out a Kirby Morgan mask but I think you need a nato pod to make it work for CCR. Not sure where to find one. I have a Draeger FFM too but found this very big and awkward with the side reg.
Reading these sad posts and accidents I am wondering if perhaps I should play with my Panorama mask again.

I guess this is off-topic to original very sad post - but maybe its good if there are useful discussions coming of this...

Best,
Alex
 
Dr.Alex said:
I tried to relax my jaw like when I doze or sleep (no biting on the mouthpiece) and it kept it all there and no leak, although some strong movement would crack the seal probably. I don't think this would be the case without the lip pad. If I did this without the gag strap the loop would fall out or leak immediately.

No idea if violent seizures would keep it all sealed like a FFM, but the loop seems firmly in place. Better than nothing. Actually I like it since I don't have to worry about the loop going anywhere when things get hectic.

I'd like to check out a Kirby Morgan mask but I think you need a nato pod to make it work for CCR. Not sure where to find one. I have a Draeger FFM too but found this very big and awkward with the side reg.
Reading these sad posts and accidents I am wondering if perhaps I should play with my Panorama mask again.

I guess this is off-topic to original very sad post - but maybe its good if there are useful discussions coming of this...

Best,
Alex
Click to expand...

You don't need The NATO pod , i have The KM 48 mod I attached to my Revo with the normal pod
 
Michael Thornton said:
This is sad especially if it was a problem with O2 supply (Empty or turned off).
After RF3 I made my own new checklist that I wrote in my wetnotes, in hopes that because I wrote my own I would use it more diligently. Just a short while after I was doing some trimix diving and had put my rebreather together with the checklist. I got in the water and had a gear problem. I aborted the dive to fix the gear problem and got out and fixed the issue. I then decided to do a shallow easy dive instead of the trimix dive. I got back in and when I saw my HUD flash red realized I had gotten in with the tanks off (I had turned the tanks off to fix the earlier issue and had not repeated my checklist (Which I should have known better especially after the recent talks of checklists at RF3)) I quickly turned the tanks on and had one of those humbling experiences about the importance of checklists. Luckily mine was just a humbling experience without a tragic ending. Since then I have been even more diligent about pre-dive checks. But I SHOULD have been more diligent even without the experience.

I guess what I am getting at is that Checklists are great for 90% of the time but with this type of situation (Which has happened to many times) they are not the only answer and that there are some rebreather designs that could be beneficial.
1. I wish every rebreather had a vibrating alarm (Like the Hammerhead, Sentinel, Poseidon and Explorer Sport). I think there is no way you could not notice a vibrating alarm going off which would alert you to look at your handset or bail out.
2. An audible alarm is the next best thing, but far to often I see people who don't hear it which is why I still wish every rebreather had a vibrating alarm.
3. The other option is to have some sort of leaky valve. (Currently none of my rereathers do) This is definitely an argument for a Hybrid type rebreather.

No oxygen on the surface is especially concerning when using a smithers code type HUD. With Smithers code if you are on the surface with a setpoint of .7 the HUD will be flashing red 3 times. (Don't get me wrong I think Smithers code is really smart. A way with just LEDS to know your actual PO2 by your HUD on each individual cell, it's brilliant)
But the diver becomes conditioned to seeing red flashes and it be ok. (As opposed to a setpoint style HUD where Red=Bad and Green=Good)

So when the PO2 drops the HUD flashed Red more often then normal. This is not as attention grabbing as other designs because the diver is used to seeing flashing red.

I know that even without these designs there are ways to dive the rebreathers safe such as running it as an O2 breather above 6m etc. I am just making some humble observations.

This is a sad situation, I hope that with checklists, team protocols, rebreather designs, and more knowledge we (as an industry) can eliminate more of these tragic accidents.
Click to expand...

I would like to compliment the logic of Hammerheads Rev-D Threat matrix. PO2 too low, <.19 solenoid injects automatically. In addition, Red LED on Handset flashes, HUD backlight flashes, Flashing Red LED's on the HUD coupled with Vibrating Alarm. I think that should grab your attention big time.
 
Few month back there was an accident in NSW /Australia where the group leader ( apparently experienced guy ) started his dive and in 3m of water a blackout because solenoid faulty / tank off, can't remember which.
He survived - luckily.
The REV D on my Optima is a good little unit but it has also given me some grief showing green
light with PO2 dropping way below set point , handsets and sensors fine . We'll luckily I picked it.

Solenoids and related electronics create an estimate of 25-30% of work in my job due to failure, nothing trustworthy I can tell you.
I think it's all about routine as in frequent checks instead of relying on LED's too much
 
Since this thread I have had a series of solinoid issues on my JJ. I striped and cleened the soloinide and it seemed to work OK on another ocasion turning the 02 on quickly seemed to sort out the problem then finaly it failed and wouldent work at all. At that point I discovered the broken solder joint.

I think (though cant be sure) all the previous issues were the intermitent contact of the solder joint. The wire was kept in place by the shrink wrap.

From start to finish I probably did two months diving with this intermitent fault.

Fortunatly when it went wrong I noticed.

ATB

Mark
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top