Rob Stewart missing

R

reefrat

New Member
Well known shark conservationist and underwater film documentary maker Rob Stewart went missing yesterday after surfacing from a 225 ft dive on the "Queen of Nassau" wreck in the Florida Keys. From another news report I saw mention of him surfacing with his buddy who climbed into the boat and apparently passed out- the crew attended the buddy and then realized that Rob ws no longer on the surface or anywhere to be seen. There has been a USCG coordinated search going on but no news yet AFAIK. It seems likely that Rob at least was using a Revo CCR and it certainly looks ominous at this point but of course everyone fervently hopes that he just drifted off on the surface and will be found live and well.

https://www.deeperblue.com/sharkwater-director-rob-stewart-goes-missing-diving-off-florida-keys/
 
Randy Thornton said:
They recovered his body today. You can find an initial report here. I can't vouch for the accuracy however.

https://www.outsideonline.com/2154621/rob-stewart-obituary
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Randy, this article posted brings up many concerns. I hope the training agencies are taking note and engaging a thorough investigation. It sounds as if this one could have been prevented. I question the effects of repetitive no helium penalty deco procedures. I will follow this closely. Thanks for posting!
 
Not directly related to this incident but in an indirect manner: Anyone know what RESA's protocols are when one of their instructors is involved in a situation such as this? Do they carry out their own investigation to establish the instructors fitness to instruct afterwards? Is an instructor free to instruct afterwards or must they be 'cleared' by RESA first? What about quality control? Do manufacturers audit their instructors ever to ensure that their dive standards and teaching practices reflect what are approved by the manufacturer?
 
RESA has no investigative body whatsoever. Whether an instructor is "investigated" or not is entirely up to the agency. Whether they remain a manufacturer approved instructor is up to them.
 
rjack said:
RESA has no investigative body whatsoever. Whether they remain a manufacturer approved instructor is up to them.
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So do we know then do manufacturers regularly evaluate their instructors? Is there any quality control or is it just down to volume of unit sales?
 
cathal said:
So do we know then do manufacturers regularly evaluate their instructors? Is there any quality control or is it just down to volume of unit sales?
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We can't speak on behalf of other manufacturers, but SubGravity has very strict quality assurance program for our factory approved instructors (https://ccr.sub-gravity.com/training/) including, but not limited to:
  • Higher level of prerequisites (not the minimum required by the training agencies)
  • Constant reevaluation through student feedback, online exams, social media interaction
  • IT evaluations (our limited number of ITs interact very closely with the factory)
  • Online electronics updates (when a new feature is released, software updated etc)
  • The SubGravity HQ training team works closely with our authorized training agencies to ensure open communication at every level (eg. to ensure that instructors are fulfilling both SubGravity and training agency requirements)
  • SubGravity has no problem revoking instructors factory authorization, or offering remedial training / updates as appropriate. We would also work closely with the agency in this scenario.
 
SubGravity said:
We can't speak on behalf of other manufacturers, but SubGravity has very strict quality assurance program for our factory approved instructors (https://ccr.sub-gravity.com/training/) including, but not limited to:
  • Higher level of prerequisites (not the minimum required by the training agencies)
  • Constant reevaluation through student feedback, online exams, social media interaction
  • IT evaluations (our limited number of ITs interact very closely with the factory)
  • Online electronics updates (when a new feature is released, software updated etc)
  • The SubGravity HQ training team works closely with our authorized training agencies to ensure open communication at every level (eg. to ensure that instructors are fulfilling both SubGravity and training agency requirements)
  • SubGravity has no problem revoking instructors factory authorization, or offering remedial training / updates as appropriate. We would also work closely with the agency in this scenario.
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Hi Randy
Many thanks for being so forthright. My query was specifically aimed at Instructor evaluation, re-evaluation or perhaps disengagement if the manufacturer following an incident such as the one above is not happy with the instructors performance. The last one is something we do not hear too much about tbh. A cynic might say its hard for the manufacturer to remain objective if an instructor is selling a lot of units. Others might say that its specifically in the manufacturers interests to disengage from an instructor if the quality of their instruction is called into question. However all I can say is that I have not heard or come across any agency disengaging from an instructor due to poor levels of instruction, feel free to correct me though!
 
cathal said:
Hi Randy
Many thanks for being so forthright. My query was specifically aimed at Instructor evaluation, re-evaluation or perhaps disengagement if the manufacturer following an incident such as the one above is not happy with the instructors performance. The last one is something we do not hear too much about tbh. A cynic might say its hard for the manufacturer to remain objective if an instructor is selling a lot of units. Others might say that its specifically in the manufacturers interests to disengage from an instructor if the quality of their instruction is called into question. However all I can say is that I have not heard or come across any agency disengaging from an instructor due to poor levels of instruction, feel free to correct me though!
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cathal-

You might actually be surprised how often this DOES happen (maybe not as often as it should though?). I (or SubGravity) cannot comment on the above incident, as I was not involved in any way, but cases where I have been involved, or at least privy to "inside information", the parties involved USUALLY find it is in everyone's best interest to not make a public spectacle of it. It is not unusual for a manufacturer to terminate their "factory authorization" for a particular instructor if they determine that the instructor is causing safety issues, is not following standards etc etc. SubGravity also works very closely with the training agencies to ensure we are all on the same page. Of course we do our best to prevent these situations to begin with through extensive training and continuing evaluation of our "factory approved" instructors.
 
I can speak on behalf of JJCCR and that if there is an incident, instructor involved or not, it does get fully looked into. If there is an incident or if there is a complaint regarding an instructor, it is fully researched. Instructors have gone through re-evaluations and in some cases they have not been allowed to teach anymore. As far as I know, that is common with rebreather manufacturers.
 
just to back up what Wayne says we have, can ,and will dismiss any instructor who is show to have malpractise .
for clarity RESA is a membership body of rebreather manufacturers set up to try to bring some continuity in the industry and to advise on training standards and safety. It is NOT a training agency and we do not have direct control over what the agencies do, an individual manufacturer can decide if he wants to work with a given agency, that is not a RESA ruling it is up to the individual manufacturer. not all rebreather manufacturers are members of RESA
 
ccrdave said:
just to back up what Wayne says we have, can ,and will dismiss any instructor who is show to have malpractise .
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Dave, Out of curiosity what was the outcome of the April 2016 JJ-CCR Blue Grotto fatality last year. Where as i understand it the cave? student from Europe reportedly had a blackout mask fitted infront of their HUD?
Is deliberately obscuring a student from knowing their PPO2 the norm for JJ-CCR training, or something considered malpractise?

Apologies if any of the above details are not correct as they are weird but it just seems an oddity.
 
Brad_Horn said:
No worries Dave. Look forward to seeing an accident analysis published, so we can all learn from it.
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Yes worries, Brad. Asking a hugely loaded question like "Is deliberately obscuring a student from knowing their PPO2 the norm for JJ-CCR training, or something considered malpractise?" (a question similar to the "have you stopped beating your wife yet?" classic) based on rumour and speculation that is incorrect, is pretty shit to be frank.
 
jturner said:
Asking a hugely loaded question
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Wasn't any intent for it to be loaded. AFAIK it's the only JJ-CCR fatality currently publicly attributed to a possible training issue. Previously I understand the trend on JJ's was for the fatality to be in cold water, surface swimming or slowly descending; but that ceased when the 0.4 PPO2 setpoint default was pulled.

If the above is incorrect. My apologies and please just point me to where an accident analysis for these incidents are published.

It's not as if there is a public record for instructors who are dismissed for malpractice. As Dave has said, he has done it. In order for students such as Rob and others to look them up first.....
 
Brad_Horn said:
please just point me to where an accident analysis for these incidents are published..
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Just curious from whereabouts are you expecting this objective impartial accident analysis to emerge, the Public authorities? That's not going to happen, so who else do you believe will be able to have access to the CCR involved in the incident and can give us an analysis of the particular Unit, its condition on the dive, how it was maintained prior to the dive and also the Diver i.e. their physical health, their qualifications, their prior experience etc. and their final decisions that they took?
 
CCR Josh said:
cathal- but cases where I have been involved, or at least privy to "inside information", the parties involved USUALLY find it is in everyone's best interest to not make a public spectacle of it. It is not unusual for a manufacturer to terminate their "factory authorization" for a particular instructor if they determine that the instructor is causing safety issues, is not following standards etc etc.
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Hi Josh
Thanks for the response, however if no-one knows about an instructor having being 'let go' by a training agency or manufacturer for poor standards or safety violation how can divers or other training agencies or manufacturers make pick an instructor ? Would the industry and divers be better served by following the aviation model of transparency when dealing with the safety record of an instructor?
 
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cathal said:
Hi Josh
Thanks for the response, however if no-one knows about an instructor having being 'let go' by a training agency or manufacturer for poor standards or safety violation how can divers or other training agencies or manufacturers make informed decisions on which instructor to select and qualify to teach on their unit or to select for a course? Surely would the industry and divers be better served by following the aviation model of transparency when dealing with the safety record of an instructor?
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Usually the RB Manufacturers have all Active Instructors on their websites. If manufacturer takes away teaching status, instructor comes off website. So my suggestion, if you don't see instructor on manufacturers website contact manufacturer first. PADI (not sure what others) has a Pro Check (which I think is great), but not sure if other agencies do the same thing. I think that we do indeed need transparency from both the Manufacturer and Training Agency when it comes to Instructors Status.
 
cathal said:
Hi Josh
Thanks for the response, however if no-one knows about an instructor having being 'let go' by a training agency or manufacturer for poor standards or safety violation how can divers or other training agencies or manufacturers make pick an instructor ? Would the industry and divers be better served by following the aviation model of transparency when dealing with the safety record of an instructor?
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SubGravity makes it pretty simple by promoting (in person, in our user manuals, online etc) that all prospective students and customers always check our website for the most up to date list of "Factory Approved" instructors. https://ccr.sub-gravity.com/training/

From our Defender CCR user manual:

"Finding a Trainer - Choosing an instructor to conduct your SubGravity Defender CCR training is as important as choosing the correct rebreather for you. Your training should be a challenging yet fun and rewarding experience, and choosing a trainer will play a large part in the quality of your experience. It is important to choose a SubGravity approved instructor from the instructor listing on the SubGravity website: ccr.sub-gravity.com/training. SubGravity ensures their factory recognized instructors are in active teaching status with their respective training organizations. Verification of an instructor’s status on the SubGravity Defender CCR can be obtained by submitting a request for a verification letter to SubGravity directly."
​
As for critical safety issues, I agree there is a certain line, that when crossed, should be dealt with in a more public way (when dealing with it "behind closed doors" is not likely to work, or when a public statement needs to be made to ensure safe and correct information). Of course I think we would all agree that prevention is the best cure.
 

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