Hello - New to CCRs....Melbourne based.

garethingham

New Member
Hi All,

Just completed training on Meg and Pathfinder in Thailand with Ben Reymenants at Blue Label Diving. Wanted to understand if I could live with a CCR day to day in my diving.

My background is GUE T2/C2 and have been able to complete all dives I have wanted to do on OC up to this point. My reason for considering CCR is that there are some remote places with cool stuff to see but really expensive helium costs. I have a choice to make.....spend 10k per trip on gas, don't do the dives, do deep air (not going to happen) or buy a CCR.

Tough choice around unit and setup now.....

JJCCR but wait for the ISCan conversion
Pathfinder but get BMCL setup
MEG, BMCL and wait for ISCan conversion.

JJ lacks handset redundancy, my use case is around remote use of a unit. If the JJ handset fails I am back to square 1. ISCan would fix that. Pathfinder is good to go on the electronics but lacks depth rating and BMCL. Meg is a great unit but those handsets are huge and it would also need BMCL for me to be happy.

Does anyone have insights around the timelines for JJ and MEG ISCan conversions?
 
Hi Gareth,

Welcome to the Meg family. The Meg is a great unit and will have the ISCan electronics once Leon is finished adapting it to fit into the Meg. There will be an upgrade process from the APECS electronics to the ISCan available for existing Meg owners in the future and will be a great addition to the Meg. As for when we will get to see it is totally up to Leon but don't be surprised if it's a long wait........In the meantime......

My preference is to have a Shearwater computer fitted in place of the secondary handset. Then have it fitted to the Left side and the primary APECS handset fitted to the right side. All the dive information and PO2 is now in the one place and there is no need for the primary handset other than to set the setpoint controller and as a redundant PO2 readout. But......The HUD is driven from the same controller that controls the primary handset readout so all you need do is check the HUD and it will be exactly the same as the handset, so there is no need to even look at the primary handset after setting the setpoint, so clip it off as you would have done with an APECS secondary.

I have fitted a few heads up like this and it works very nicely and frees up a bit of clutter.

Regards,

Lance
 
Soon Mate soon , bloody work gets in my way most time but yes have done some dives on HAMS Adelaide in Teringal last month .


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How does the ISCan upgrade solve your issue with the JJ?
Currently, you can fly manually, reading your PO2 from the HUD if the handset fails. An extra handset is just an extra handset to fail IMHO.

Even if you're remote, surely 1 dead handset results in an aborted trip as you wouldn't start a dive with a faulty backup. Or am I missing the point?

Sent from my XT905 using Tapatalk
 
Hi Lance what would you expect to pay for the ISCan Electronics on a Meg (APECS 2.01x addendum)?

Hi Tony, There is no information available other than what I have already posted regarding the ISCan upgrade. Your headplate is one of the later ones so you shouldn't need anything other than the std upgrade kit and possibly a battery box upgrade but we will all have to wait and see what they come up with before anyone really knows for sure.

Don't hold your breath waiting but it is coming.

Regards,

Lance
 
Revo ? Bmcl, big scrubber option, they exist now and work fine, low profile, (you sound caver) stick a controller on, and dive manual if it fails. easy to stick lots of cells in if cell seperation is your thing and redundant monitoring. Pathfinder is cute though :-)
 
How does the ISCan upgrade solve your issue with the JJ?
Currently, you can fly manually, reading your PO2 from the HUD if the handset fails. An extra handset is just an extra handset to fail IMHO.

Even if you're remote, surely 1 dead handset results in an aborted trip as you wouldn't start a dive with a faulty backup. Or am I missing the point?

Sent from my XT905 using Tapatalk

I could take a secondary $1500 handset on a 10k dive trip....if it fails it's not game set and match...I could swap it out. Currently don't you have to send the head back to JJ if the handset fails?

With ISCan I can plug and play. On the JJ if the shearwater fails you cannot calibrate, check mv etc. I had a read of the JJ manual but don't see a way around this?

Happy to be corrected.
 
Revo ? Bmcl, big scrubber option, they exist now and work fine, low profile, (you sound caver) stick a controller on, and dive manual if it fails. easy to stick lots of cells in if cell seperation is your thing and redundant monitoring. Pathfinder is cute though :-)

Revo is awesome (rms, dual scrubber, full BMCL, ISCan) except it is not flood recoverable, cells are very exposed if you do get water in the unit. Also cannot take various size tanks unless you sidemount them. My use case is remote travel where they may only have 60's, 80's and 40 Ali's. Don't want to have to travel with cylinders.
 
Talk to Jason Caldwell about his thoughts on flood recovery a few years since changing to CCR.

I come from a GUE C1 background and picked the rEvo with full RMS for a number of reasons including it being nice and thin to fit through caves.

Everyone throws in the arguement about flood recovery but is it really such a big deal in actual practice - not many full floods out there that I could find.

You also have the benefit of Damo being in Melbourne with full spares and service on your doorstep.

One of the biggest ticks on my list being down here in Australia is No Head to send back!!

If a controller dies in a remote area then it can be dived on the dreams in manual.
 
Revo is awesome (rms, dual scrubber, full BMCL, ISCan) except it is not flood recoverable, cells are very exposed if you do get water in the unit. Also cannot take various size tanks unless you sidemount them. My use case is remote travel where they may only have 60's, 80's and 40 Ali's. Don't want to have to travel with cylinders.

You'd expect that if a location has CCR support, for example sorb that they'd also have appropriate sized cylinders available for hire.
 
Talk to Jason Caldwell about his thoughts on flood recovery a few years since changing to CCR.

I come from a GUE C1 background and picked the rEvo with full RMS for a number of reasons including it being nice and thin to fit through caves.

Everyone throws in the arguement about flood recovery but is it really such a big deal in actual practice - not many full floods out there that I could find.

You also have the benefit of Damo being in Melbourne with full spares and service on your doorstep.

One of the biggest ticks on my list being down here in Australia is No Head to send back!!

If a controller dies in a remote area then it can be dived on the dreams in manual.

Flood recovery is not as important to me now as it was when I made my original list because since getting instruction, I have taken on the mantra that my unit has two modes:
1. It works and I stay on it
2. It doesn't and I am bailed out - if I choose to go back to it in the shallows for deco, then I may choose to do that.

I've let water in my loop a couple of times - early days in error at the end of a dive, but since doing hypoxic trimix, I've decided now that I never remove my loop while on the surface; let's discuss the dive on the boat and my buddies all know that. Mainly due to the possibility of breathing hypoxic gas from the BOV on the surface, so if I always use the same procedure, there is less likelihood of this happening.
I let a little bit of water in my loop while diving quite a lot as I look from side to side, so it's nice to be able to expel that out via the counterlung dump. I tend to hold the mouthpiece quite loosely in my mouth it seems and I never get jaw fatigue - longest dive on the unit has been 3 hours 40 mins.

I also have a GUE background as most know and it was the clear thinking in Clare Pooley's original post that made me ditch the Satori PSCR in favor of CCR. It is interesting that GUE have now adopted the JJ and courses have been running to train their Tech2 divers on the unit - with their config of course.

My unit has been rock solid and I've never had to send my head back, but know of guys that have. Jan seems to turn them around quite quickly and does other little free upgrades for people too :-) I'd rather have the guy who designed and built my unit carry out repairs than a service agent, so have no issue with sending it back if I ever had to. Jan doesn't seem to charge for return freight either, which is nice. Most of the guys that have had an issue have had the issue with the HUD, but that has now been resolved it seems. The Shearwater controllers seem to be very reliable and I haven't heard of one faulting on a JJ yet. I think the DiveCAN version of the JJ should be interesting and should offer the redundancy that Gareth is looking for.

My choice not to buy the rEvo was not solely based on flood recovery or lack thereof. I still would not buy one now. I lot of guys like them and think they are a good unit, but I prefer the flexibility/simplicity of the JJ and potted electronics. No unit is perfect, not the JJ, Meg, Inspo or rEvo. I think the JJ is let down in the USA by no local representation, but that is about to change it seems. Support in Australia is pretty good really with Barry and Rob Main now teaching on the unit and both guys keeping stock of spares. Bazza has a spare head to loan his customers too, which is nice. Truth be told, I would be more likely to buy a Meg or an Inspo than the rEvo. I like the ability to be able to be in any position I want to be to get that perfect photographic angle, head down, head up, on your back - the JJ breathes well and I don't have to worry about flooding cells if I've let a little water in my unit. The JJ water traps and protection system are very simple and well engineered designs from the Tee piece in the exhale counterlung to the scrubber/scrubber can, leaving the diver and the unit well protected. I like doing tests, so I put some fresh water in the bottom of my can one day at home to see how easy it was to flood the cells (cells removed of course and used sorb) and it was nearly impossible to get water on the cells. The only way was to be on my back and then go head first from the on your back position. When taking pictures, I'm more likely to go head up if on my back than head down. The scrubber can is the second water trap too, so it has to make it past the first one in the exhale counterlung.

In tight caves, I've found the biggest issue is having full bailout cylinders hanging down below you, not the height of the unit on your back. I think the GUE system with Lola valves, flex manifold and twin 7's with a small oxygen bottle and suit inflation bottle is the perfect combination for caves as it reduces the amount of bailouts you need to carry below you. I'll have a play around with it over the next few months.
 
Hi All, Just completed training on Meg and Pathfinder in Thailand with Ben Reymenants at Blue Label Diving. Wanted to understand if I could live with a CCR day to day in my diving.
My background is GUE T2/C2 and have been able to complete all dives I have wanted to do on OC up to this point. My reason for considering CCR is that there are some remote places with cool stuff to see but really expensive helium costs. I have a choice to make.....spend 10k per trip on gas, don't do the dives, do deep air (not going to happen) or buy a CCR.
Tough choice around unit and setup now.....
JJCCR but wait for the ISCan conversion/Pathfinder but get BMCL setup/MEG, BMCL and wait for ISCan conversion.
JJ lacks handset redundancy, my use case is around remote use of a unit. If the JJ handset fails I am back to square 1. ISCan would fix that. Pathfinder is good to go on the electronics but lacks depth rating and BMCL. Meg is a great unit but those handsets are huge and it would also need BMCL for me to be happy.
Does anyone have insights around the timelines for JJ and MEG ISCan conversions?
G'day have you considered the MCCR RBs like the Classic Kiss Pelagian & the rEvo's, I would of thought that the GUE minded types would go down that route but for some reason a lot like the JJs'
 
Hi Mike,

Went with axial. Landed cost is about 12k at current exchange rates. That excludes tanks and BOV which will be another 1500. 3 big mixed gas trips and it will pay itself back. Few years back we were doing 100+ mixed gas dives a year, that an awful lot of Helium....and a lot of time blending.
 
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