Mouthpiece Retaining Head-strap

It's really just a mouthpiece.... stick it on and tie-wrao it like any other. You just need to look at your BOV to make sure there is space for the sealing flange to clear any regulator structure. Of course, you can always trim to fit.

You can also look at rhe factory fitment for the Inspiration, which does not have the lip-sealing flange. It's likely not quite as good but it is better than nothing.

Dave

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I had a hypercapnea event last month on a recreational dive in T&C using my GEM right after training. But I'm not sure if that's hijacking the thread or its intended purpose.

Ken
 
I have been using the Draeger Crown Strap since 2007 and also tried the DIRrebreather velcro "neck strap" (useless).

The strap goes all the way around and on top of the cave helmet and on top of the lights (helmet mounted).

To remove the strap and BOV (Golem Shrimp) I find it easiest and quickest (including for off-board bail-out) to put the thumbs under the strap to the sides of the head and stretch a little and lift up.

The DSV or BOV is thereafter free and hanging loose as if the strap was not there.

To replace the strap back in position, I reverse the operation. I need not move/change the strap adjustment/lenght once it is set to the correct tension.

Using it like this, the 1st Draeger Crown Strap has lasted me many years. The 1st strap only broke a year or so ago near the mouthpiece, and it is still useable and I keep it as spares by securing it at the mouth piece with a cable tie.

I would not dive without one (even though I dive Solo and it would be of some, but very limited benefit in case of unconsciousness or convulsions).

Before using the cave helmet, I found the Crown Strap would interfere with the mask strap causing some annoying leaks on occasion. I solved this by wearing the mask strap under the hood, and the Crown Strap above the hood... but without a hood I think the Crown Strap could be a bit of a problem when used with the neoprene type mask straps.

This has been my 5 year personal experience using it.
 
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marekm said:
Hi Paul,

I think you have opened a can of worms here regarding personal liberties and personal responsibility.

Making an actual law to force seatbelts is a violation of personal liberties. No one should be forced to use protective equipment if they don't want to. At the same time, they should be held personally responsible for the consequences of not using said safety equipment, and not try to place the blame on everyone but themselves.

Consider this, wearing a helmet while driving a car is safer than not wearing one. Yet I bet you:
1) Don't drive with a helmet
2) Don't want laws forcing you to wear a helmet when driving.
3) Probably will choose to wear a helmet when doing riskier activities like racing a car on a racetrack.

People have the ability to weigh up risks and decide what level of risk they are personally comfortable with. Taking a paternalistic attitude to law making leads to nanny states like the one I'm living in now (where rebreather diving on charter boats is so regulated as to be functionally outlawed).

Laws that I would support, however, are those that would give legal backing to personal responsibility when carrying out activities that are dangerous only to oneself. Thus if you do something at your own risk and things go wrong, the courts put the blame squarely on you and nobody else.

So informing people to use a FFM or gag strap is all well and good as long as it stays as informing and does not develop into enforcing.

-Marek
Click to expand...
Hello Marek

Thanks for the response and my apologies if I've created some confusion here. I was not suggesting the use of a mouthpiece retaining strap is imposed by legislation, I doubt whether there would be a mechanism to create or enforce such a 'law', and like yourself, I too would not wish to see that level of state intrusion. I use the seatbelt analogy only to demonstrate how once being propelled face first through a glass windshield like a human cannon ball was considered an acceptable and 'inevitable' risk of driving because "it will never happen to me", where as now, through a change of driving safety culture, being propelled face first through a windshield is no longer considered an acceptable and inevitable aspect of driving and as a result of this change in attitude to the use of seat belts, life has been preserved on countless occasions. I hope this has clarified my position.

Rgds Paul
 
hillbilly said:
I have never used a gag strap before. Wondering how it seals if you go unconsious? Your mouth/jaw/lips relaxes how does it prevent water from entering?
Click to expand...

Yes good question. A mouthpiece retaining strap offers no guarantee of providing a complete seal when in a totally relaxed state, it does however prevent the mouthpiece dropping out thereby significantly increasing the likelihood of surviving a loss of consciousness episode whilst underwater. Put simply, drop a mouthpiece whilst unconscious underwater and the next inhalation will likely result in asphyxiation and you gaining approximately 5kg to 8kg of additional ballast as the loop and your lungs flood up. This of course all happens within an extremely short period of time and survivability has within seconds now become highly improbable. In contrast, with the mouthpiece in place, the next inhalation will be gas and perhaps a small amount of water depending upon the situation (face down / face up), the design of the retaining strap etc, not ideal I admit, however your lungs and the loop are not catastrophically flooding up so the potential of survival either through self preservation if consciousness is regained, or by a buddy is now significantly increased. There are no guarantees, its about managing risk by reducing the probability of encountering the single largest cause of rebreather deaths - drowning.

A mouthpiece retaining strap (hate the phrase gag strap - no wonder they are not popular) has saved me on one occasion and I have seen it save another diver on a separate occasion whilst ox tox fitting on an oxygen rebreather after leaving a submarine in the N Sea with over 150m of water beneath us. Both I and he are still here today, in large part due to the simple rubber strap.

Rgds Paul
 
PeterN said:
I did have trouble when I was using the gag strap with a DSV. I was pushing it up when bailing to OC. Now I am running a BOV and have yet to give it a go. I willl put it on tonight and see....

I will say that I loved the gag strap for longer dives. Quite relaxing. If you want to look around, just look. No need to hold the mouthpiece in place.

Peter
Click to expand...

Hi Peter

I've been using a mouthpiece retaining strap with all DSVs and now with my Meg BOV for the last twelve months - I've found no problems, this includes repeatedly demonstrating bailout skills during CCR courses. Hope you get on OK with yours. I wear my mask strap under my hood to limit the likelihood of my mask being dislodged and the mouthpiece retaining strap on top of my hood, thus avoiding strap confusion. This also enables the mouthpiece retaining strap to be easily adjusted or taken off temporarily if for example conducting an exhale breathing hose water clearing drill where the breathing hoses are briefly held above the head.

Rgds Paul
 
...
gianaameri said:
I have been using the Draeger Crown Strap since 2007 and also tried the DIRrebreather velcro "neck strap" (useless).

The strap goes all the way around and on top of the cave helmet and on top of the lights (helmet mounted).

To remove the strap and BOV (Golem Shrimp) I find it easiest and quickest (including for off-board bail-out) to put the thumbs under the strap to the sides of the head and stretch a little and lift up.

The DSV or BOV is thereafter free and hanging loose as if the strap was not there.

To replace the strap back in position, I reverse the operation. I need not move/change the strap adjustment/lenght once it is set to the correct tension.

Using it like this, the 1st Draeger Crown Strap has lasted me many years. The 1st strap only broke a year or so ago near the mouthpiece, and it is still useable and I keep it as spares by securing it at the mouth piece with a cable tie.

I would not dive without one (even though I dive Solo and it would be of some, but very limited benefit in case of unconsciousness or convulsions).

Before using the cave helmet, I found the Crown Strap would interfere with the mask strap causing some annoying leaks on occasion. I solved this by wearing the mask strap under the hood, and the Crown Strap above the hood... but without a hood I think the Crown Strap could be a bit of a problem when used with the neoprene type mask straps.

This has been my 5 year personal experience using it.
Click to expand...
 
Paul Haynes said:
Hi Peter

I've been using a mouthpiece retaining strap with all DSVs and now with my Meg BOV for the last twelve months - I've found no problems, this includes repeatedly demonstrating bailout skills during CCR courses. Hope you get on OK with yours. I wear my mask strap under my hood to limit the likelihood of my mask being dislodged and the mouthpiece retaining strap on top of my hood, thus avoiding strap confusion. This also enables the mouthpiece retaining strap to be easily adjusted or taken off temporarily if for example conducting an exhale breathing hose water clearing drill where the breathing hoses are briefly held above the head.

Rgds Paul
Click to expand...

Thank you Paul! It is amazing to me how the obvious is not so apparent sometimes. Strap confusion was indeed an issue. Funny, when wearing a helmet I worked out right away to use the mask strap under my hoods. :doh:

Cheers,

Peter
 
Following an incident when a close friend of mine drowned, following a loss of consciousness, driven by an error in equipment setup (wrong gas) I did my own thorough, yet some are welcome to say bodgy risk assessment of diving on a CCR and ways to minimise the inherent risks.

One of the clear cut results was to stop the bloody mouthpiece falling out of your gob.

To date I have used:

1. A modified neoprene mask strap on my KISS BOV. Possibly the best one I have used, but the strap needed to be longer when I decided to move to a better breathing BOV.

2. On my APD BOV, I used a Draeger mouthpiece and head strap. Amazingly uncomfortable to dive with, but it did the job. I could not even worry about holding the mouthpiece in my teeth.

3. I relented and got an ADP headstrap. It looks garish. The straps are almost too short (*more on that later), and the adjustment thingy is absurd. But it does the job.

Some of my diving colleagues use a headstrap (locally, we call it a gag) others do not. Each to their own.

cheers

Andy
 
Interesting post Paul. I've been considering the use of these straps recently and had just made up my mind to try the AP one.

In fact thinking about it it might have been your "Survival Guide to Rebreather Diving" that initially got me thinking about mouthpiece straps in the first place.
 
Mark Powell said:
Interesting post Paul. I've been considering the use of these straps recently and had just made up my mind to try the AP one.

In fact thinking about it it might have been your "Survival Guide to Rebreather Diving" that initially got me thinking about mouthpiece straps in the first place.
Click to expand...

Hello Mark

Yes there has been some very good follow up posts and it is pleasing to see how positive the responses have been and the increasing number of divers now using them. Previous discussions I have had on the subject in the past have in the main been very negative, including discussions with two leading rebreather manufacture senior representatives. Perhaps the fatality data clearly indicating drowning as the single largest cause of death when using a rebreather is beginning to have an impact in the rebreather community. I really do think the training agencies can have a key role to play here. If training standards mandated the use of a retaining strap during training, there would I believe be rapid cultural change. Anyway I'll be interested to know how you get on; to a person, students and dive buddies of mine who now use a retaining strap state they would not go back to not using one. I don't pretend for a moment in every instance it will provide complete respiratory track protection if unconscious but as a wrote in response to a question on the subject, there are no guarantees, it is about managing risk by reducing the probability of encountering the single largest cause of rebreather fatalities. Hope to bump into you at some time.

Rgds Paul
 
As one of Paul's students and dive buddies I can agree that although it appears a bit of a faff for a start, you soon get use to using a gag strap and following Paul's example of fitting your mask strap below your hood makes the whole thing much easier as you don't get one strap snagged or confused with the other.

Over and above this I would also make the following comments on the subject from my experience to date...

- if fitting mask strap under hood it is far better to have rubber strap as neoprene one (slap strap type) catches and slips when replacing hood
- AP gag strap is excellent value for money (only £15) and is easy to fit although the adjust system is a bit large and clunky on top of head
- AP straps can pull through from adjustment system and are a beatch to refit whilst sitting at water's edge ready to jump in. I have fixed by basically zip tying two strap ends together to ensure they cannot pull through. Doesn't look pretty but works fine

All in all a little extra faff until you get used to the system is a small price to pay for the potential reduction in risk if the sheeat hits the fan. I hope never to find out for real but if I do, at least I now have better odds!

Gar
 
Thanks for that thread Paul.
Got a headstrap from AP but still hadn't fitted it since I wasn't sure whether it was actually increasing safety without a BOV... Will try it out and simulate BO ascents with it, as I feel I need to know that it's not making it more difficult in cases of hypercapnia
 
I have been looking for reasons not to add a headstrap to the inspo, I am a newbie CCRer so there are a lot of things in the 'consider' basket.

I have read many things, Pauls survival guide included and TBH cannot find a justifiable reason not to add one.

This thread and the fact it is pay day just sealed the deal.
 
I have been toying with an idea of putting a gag strap on the bov. I will defo do it asap.

Garspeed said:
- if fitting mask strap under hood it is far better to have rubber strap as neoprene one (slap strap type) catches and slips when replacing hood

Gar
Click to expand...

mask strap under the hood is good practice for a dislodged mask. at least it'll not fall of your face! btw i do carry a spare one.
 
I've been using a mouthpiece necklace for 4+ years, on both the older Golem BOV and now the Shrimp. Started with a commercial one (see blue strap around my neck in my avatar) but for the last year of so have been using a home-made one (shock cord). It's much cleaner to set up and doesn't create problems with the bayonet disconnects on the Shrimp.

No problem removing the BOV to eat, drink, lift over my head to clear the gurgle water out of the loop, etc., but still nice and snug when in place.

Fortunately I've never had to rely on it to save my life, but have tried many times to get it to fall out of my mouth in various positions. Agree there can be some water leakage into the mouth but, IMO, not enough to outweigh using it.

Bill
 

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I wonder if AP would share information on how many straps have been ordered in the last week. I know I have one on the way....

Makes it worthwhile to post information pointing out things like gag straps when most people if they are honest haven't really considered them.
 
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