toxing while on ffm/gag strap

S

s115

Member
So I've been playing around with a gag strap and previously a ffm (nova). Am considering adopting the gag strap for all diving, colder water the ffm.

But the question has come to mind, if you tox or go hypercapnic, whilst on either ffm or gag strap, what happens? You ob dont spit a reg/dsv out and drown. No one bails you out, so what happens? Has anyone experienced this?
I'm assuming youll loose buoyancy and sink, or rise, and continue to tox/go uncon unless some intervention is given. IE ffm/gag strap might save you from drowning, but you'll just keep on with the original disabling influence.

Any thoughts? Anyone been in this situation? Any medical fact someone can shed onto this?
 
Last time I looked at this and that was a long time ago now ... the answer was nobody knows.

I am of the view that you will sink and carry on fitting or whatever until the gas runs out. You die or fry your brain unless someone brings you up and gets you off the bad gas.

In my humble view there are only two reasons to use a FFM - cold and comms

Gags are slightly different and are a lot easier to handle but can if not resolved have the same effect.

Just my two bobs worth. .... Maybe Simon has done or knows off some recent research.

regards Baz
 
bazSXD said:
Last time I looked at this and that was a long time ago now ... the answer was nobody knows.

I am of the view that you will sink and carry on fitting or whatever until the gas runs out. You die or fry your brain unless someone brings you up and gets you off the bad gas.

In my humble view there are only two reasons to use a FFM - cold and comms

Gags are slightly different and are a lot easier to handle but can if not resolved have the same effect.

Just my two bobs worth. .... Maybe Simon has done or knows off some recent research.

regards Baz
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I agree with all of this. So basically, ffm/gag in an emergency is only useful unless you either 'come out of it' for some reason or someone bails you out and brings you up.
Its a point not really discussed when people are harping on about ffm/gag straps.
 
I have been using a gag strap for some time now and find the additional benifit of a less stress on my mouth/jaw after longer dives.

I don't have to grip the mouth piece while turning my head or scootering.

It might save my sorry ass if I tox.

Peter
 
A convulsion will stop even if breathing the same gas. So have a chance of self rescue if the convulsion is short.
 
alexasigno said:
A convulsion will stop even if breathing the same gas. So have a chance of self rescue if the convulsion is short.
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With the unassailable experience of having watched a grand total of one video ( ;) )(sarcasm intended) of somebody toxing in the pot , then staggering confused and helpless for 10 minutes, I doubt self-rescue is much of an option.

IMHO, the point of a gag strap, as far as toxing is concerned, like others have mentioned, is that it gives somebody else a better chance of successfully helping you. The point that's often missed when people start talking about straps and that french study about military divers and no fatalities and all that that supposedly "shows" that gag straps work is that those divers dive in tied buddy pairs.

And also, it's more comfortable - I find :)

Cheers,

Matthieu
 
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So what's the point in not having a gag strap/ffm ?
It seems to make sense to me. I use a gag strap
in the hope that I won't drown in the event of a tox
and hopefully have the chance of getting rescued.
I just can't see a down side.
 
I added a gag strap to my Prism 2 when I first learned to dive it, as well as the Hollis BOV when it became available. The only downside I see to using the gag strap is in the event you must bail to a backup second stage regulator, then it is high probability your mask will be pulled off while removing strap from back of head. I spent a considerable amount of time practicing being able to remove strap without pulling mask off with it. Even though I use a BOV, I still practice bailing to a backup second stage regularly.
 
tripntx said:
I added a gag strap to my Prism 2 when I first learned to dive it, as well as the Hollis BOV when it became available. The only downside I see to using the gag strap is in the event you must bail to a backup second stage regulator, then it is high probability your mask will be pulled off while removing strap from back of head. I spent a considerable amount of time practicing being able to remove strap without pulling mask off with it. Even though I use a BOV, I still practice bailing to a backup second stage regularly.
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I think the secret is to pull the DSV/BOV down below the chin.
 
Capt Morgan said:
I think the secret is to pull the DSV/BOV down below the chin.
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Thank You! I'll give that a try. I practiced removing my DSV/BOV by sliding my thumps under straps over each cheek until I could successfully perform the procedure with bare hands and gloves.
 
tripntx said:
Thank You! I'll give that a try. I practiced removing my DSV/BOV by sliding my thumps under straps over each cheek until I could successfully perform the procedure with bare hands and gloves.
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I have only ever pulled it down, no issues and often bailed, it's also nicely to hand and if you have opv issues you can feel it float up again.
 
I've been toying with the idea of a Draeger mouthpiece with retaining strap but the time I toxed I was on OC bailout so it wouldn't have helped.
 
nickb said:
I've been toying with the idea of a Draeger mouthpiece with retaining strap but the time I toxed I was on OC bailout so it wouldn't have helped.
Click to expand...

They are also great for just holding the BOV/DSV in place with no jaw ache.
I use one all the time now and wear the strap close to the top of my head,
as I think it should be worn, and the BOV just sits in place.
They are quite expensive for what they are but I think they are worth it.
 
emmbee said:
With the unassailable experience of having watched a grand total of one video ( ;) )(sarcasm intended) of somebody toxing in the pot , then staggering confused and helpless for 10 minutes, I doubt self-rescue is much of an option.

IMHO, the point of a gag strap, as far as toxing is concerned, like others have mentioned, is that it gives somebody else a better chance of successfully helping you. The point that's often missed when people start talking about straps and that french study about military divers and no fatalities and all that that supposedly "shows" that gag straps work is that those divers dive in tied buddy pairs.

And also, it's more comfortable - I find :)

Cheers,

Matthieu
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True very likely not. But there's a chance. Some convulsions are very short. But as you said most likelihood of survival is with someone helping you.

Simon's talk was interesting at Oztek where he mentioned that a O2 convulsion can be delayed. E.g you've come off the high ppo2 and on to a lower O2 gas and you'll still tox. Paul Haynes made a good comment I hadn't thought of when doing long dives with high CNS was to attach yourself to the deco bars/line with your jon line. Worst case and something happens you're not going to sink and people will see you.
 
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