Some parting thoughts and observations

[Tim1]

Nicely put Mark!

I live in CE land and own one CE unit and four non-CE units. Clearly I don't give a rat's arse about CE.

To me it's about how the unit dives, how it meets my style of diving and whether it is able to accommodate the modifications I intend.

All my non-CE units where purchased as 'CCR components' from a European supplier. So it was up to me if I chose to assemble them into a CCR. It gives me great pleasure to thumb my nose at EU legislation for which I have little respect.

I dont have the stats but I strongly suspect that the unit which has killed more is CE approved.



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[Poltsi]

Hehe. I was the owner of an original specification Sentinel (#96) and whilst I have had no hands on experience with later models or the Red Head I do consider the Sentinel to be a rather 'singular' unit whereas the simplicity and open architecture of the JJ and HH are complimentary, notwithstanding the Shearwater electronics.

Ok, do I read you correctly that you are referring more to the modification of the system itself when you're talking about open architecture, not just the exterior?

I've dived both with the older version (#007) with the travelframe while my own is upgraded to the red head (well almost, long story) with the Kent Tooling stand.

I'm most probably ignorant, which is why I am asking these silly questions.

Poltsi

 

[Tim1]

Ok, do I read you correctly that you are referring more to the modification of the system itself when you're talking about open architecture, not just the exterior?

I've dived both with the older version (#007) with the travelframe while my own is upgraded to the red head (well almost, long story) with the Kent Tooling stand.

I'm most probably ignorant, which is why I am asking these silly questions.

Poltsi

I may have used the term incorrectly but by 'open architecture' I meant that the unit is 'unboxed' providing greater flexibility for cylinder mounting and hose routing. I appreciate that some aftermarket frames create this flexibility in boxed units such as the AP's and Sentinel. However in respect of the Sentinel I feel that the 'Gurr' influence was / is such that it created such an indiosyncratic product and resulted in 'difference' only for the sake of difference. I liked my Sentinel, but I liked selling it more ;-) The Red Head, which I looked at in some detail at VMS, is a fantasic upgrade and IMHO is intended to 'wed' existing adopters who may have already emptied their wallets on previously futile (VR) attempts to make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

 

[Larry7895]

Hi Larry,

As you may be aware, the SubGravity Defender CCR and the iQSub X-CCR share many similar components. Currently, the X-CCR is undergoing the CE certification process. We have determined that until that process is complete, we will defer making any public comments about specific details related to CE for either unit. (At least that is the plan for now. If we determine that it would be beneficial to the CE process or at least not detrimental to the CE process at some point, we will certainly make the specs public) I know this may not sit well with some potential customers, but this has been the case with many of our competitors as well. Widespread discussion and speculation about specific performance details while undergoing CE testing has been shown in the past to be counterproductive with the CE testing process.

Currently, we do not have a temp stick monitor/RMS type solution in the works. I actually like the idea, but we have a lot on our plates right now and will probably explore that possibility at a later date. Both the Defender CCR and the X-CCR have some very cool new features in the electronics packages, so for the time being, we feel as though we have a lot to offer that make both units very competitive with the rest of the marketplace.

Suffice it to say, that we feel very strongly that our units perform very well as do several hundred of our customers who continue to upgrade their existing units as well as purchase new units. They simply work well!

For those who determine that they need more detail, I guess you'll have to wait for the CE results.

Kind regards,
Randy

Hi Randy

Thanks for taking the time to reply it is greatly appreciated. I am not sure I really understand the reasons behind your decision but of course that is your prerogative. You guys have been doing a lot of things differently of late and quality seems to have been a big part of that, which is why you have stood out to me. I had hoped to access some of this data a little quicker, but I guess I'll have to wait. When do you anticipate the CE process to be complete?

BTW I do hope you go ahead with the Temp Stick, I feel it is an excellent belt and braces aide.

Kind regards
Larry


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[Randy Thornton]

When do you anticipate the CE process to be complete?

Kind regards
Larry

Larry, that's the million dollar question! There are certain components of the process that are virtually out of our control. If it were totally in our hands, the process would already be complete!

 

[nickb]

All my non-CE units where purchased as 'CCR components' from a European supplier. So it was up to me if I chose to assemble them into a CCR. It gives me great pleasure to thumb my nose at EU legislation for which I have little respect.

I dont have the stats but I strongly suspect that the unit which has killed more is CE approved.

Tim, I'm genuinely not trying to be provocative here but, can I ask why you own and dive so many different units? I see so many people giving-up CCR because they claim that they can't put enough hours in to stay on top of their game.

Personally, I think those excuses are bullshit and I'm more that happy to do fewer than 30/40 hours some years and still feel confident to dive my JJ, but I'm not sure I'd want to spread the love between a variety of different units. Neither would I want to; if I've picked my ideal unit, which I think I have, why would I spend any time diving any others?

 

[Larry7895]

Randy has an agreement with IQSUB not to release any info on WOB until the CE testing is final. he will have to explain ths in further depth if he wants to.

I am a pretty firm believer that a diver can not tell a difference in WOB unless it is rather significant. Like I said in my earlier post, I always thought my Optima breathed fine but it turned out to have some seriously bad WOB. I think the original Kiss was the only one listed that was worse. This has changed with all their recent improvements to the newer units though.

When I did my test dive on the HH, my main goal was to check how it breathed, trimmed, and generally felt in the water. It seemed to breathe great and it breathed easier in EVERY position than my rEvo does. The hydrostatic imbalance of the BMCL on the HH have an extremely noticable difference than the rEvo does and your differing trim in the water does not make near as much difference in your buoyancy as the rEvo does either.

You should read my review after the try dive for my impressions and why I have chosen it to be my new baby. You can find it HERE

http://www.ccrexplorers.com/showthread.php?t=18781&highlight=

Hi DSix36

Thanks for linking to your excellent write up. Seems like I would be wise to wait a while for the testing results as the rest of the machine (minus Temp Stick) meets and exceeds all of my other requirements. Guess I will just have to wait patiently for a while.

One thing I initially thought the Defender and XCCR were effectively one and the same but reading through the thread you linked to there seem to be quite a few differences. Is a comparison available anywhere?

Kind regards
Larry


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[Tim1]

Tim, I'm genuinely not trying to be provocative here but, can I ask why you own and dive so many different units? I see so many people giving-up CCR because they claim that they can't put enough hours in to stay on top of their game.

Personally, I think those excuses are bullshit and I'm more that happy to do fewer than 30/40 hours some years and still feel confident to dive my JJ, but I'm not sure I'd want to spread the love between a variety of different units. Neither would I want to; if I've picked my ideal unit, which I think I have, why would I spend any time diving any others?

Your point is perfectly reasonable Nick.

Three of the units are, more or less, the same but with differing configurations for differing purposes, i.e. technical (integrated with a side mount CCR), travel and oxygen. The fourth side mount unit comes from the same stable and therefore has complimentary form and function.The fifth is my trusty old JJ. Reacquiring or maintaining familiarity is usually a simple process as I am blessed with very local opportunity.

Yes, some folk feel they cannot maintain sufficient currency to continue to dive with CCRs and revert to O/C. I guess it's all about one's personal comfort zone and that's a very individual threshold. I also believe that time, thought and committment invested out of the water has considerable value in maintaining and developing awareness, problem solving, solution creating, etc.

For many, today's lifestyle commitments and pressures require huge investments of their time and precious little remains to invest in activity around interests and hobbies. I am fortunate is this regard and am time rich.

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[Poltsi]

I may have used the term incorrectly but by 'open architecture' I meant that the unit is 'unboxed' providing greater flexibility for cylinder mounting and hose routing. I appreciate that some aftermarket frames create this flexibility in boxed units such as the AP's and Sentinel.

Aahh, yes. Thank you for the explanation.

I do concur, and I think that that is one of the reasons why people then convert their Sentinel with the travel kit.

In that regard I do like the rEvo (after all, this is the rEvo subforum), which provides a good deal of 'pluggability'. You can attach all, or at least most of your sidearms (light canister, suit gas...) on the box containing the lungs. And the fastening is solid, not straps.

The Red Head, which I looked at in some detail at VMS, is a fantasic upgrade and IMHO is intended to 'wed' existing adopters who may have already emptied their wallets on previously futile (VR) attempts to make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

Yes, there are good improvements, but they are all internal in the sense that the unit shape is still defined by its shell, which is the same as in the previous versions.

I probably should do a try-out, or even the crossover to JJ. Just to get some inkling what others are talking about

Poltsi

 

[Vanny]

"Yes, some folk feel they cannot maintain sufficient currency to continue to dive with CCRs and revert to O/C. I guess it's all about one's personal comfort zone and that's a very individual threshold. I also believe that time, thought and committment invested out of the water has considerable value in maintaining and developing awareness, problem solving, solution creating, etc."

Tim, A very good point.

 

[Ben Field]

We have determined that until that process is complete, we will defer making any public comments about specific details related to CE for either unit. (At least that is the plan for now. If we determine that it would be beneficial to the CE process or at least not detrimental to the CE process at some point, we will certainly make the specs public) I know this may not sit well with some potential customers, but this has been the case with many of our competitors as well. Widespread discussion and speculation about specific performance details while undergoing CE testing has been shown in the past to be counterproductive with the CE testing process.

Whether CE, the XCCR or Defender is of interest or not the above is a wholly wise idea IMO, if for no other reason than it provides many many less opportunities to stick ones foot in it or say something you later have to deny or retract... as we have seen before.

Both the Defender CCR and the X-CCR have some very cool new features in the electronics packages, so for the time being, we feel as though we have a lot to offer that make both units very competitive with the rest of the marketplace.

This is totally thread unrelated but it is what keeps me amused by the CCR industry, the electronic wizardry on these units was what left me cold and I killed the browser half way down the page- not interested... yet some people will do back flips to get their hands on one while I constantly look to take stuff off my rebreather. What a topsy turvy little industry this it?

 

[Phate]

Back to the original point. To the OP, if your rEvo needs a babysitter I SUPPOSE I could take the job for you. It'll be tough, but I'm sure I'm up to the task

 

[DSix36]

Back to the original point. To the OP, if your rEvo needs a babysitter I SUPPOSE I could take the job for you. It'll be tough, but I'm sure I'm up to the task

Glad to see the thread getting back on track to the joys of rEvo. Thanks for that.

As for the babysitting offer, she really gets homesick so I think it is in her best interest to just stay put a little longer.

 

[Mark Chase]

Tim, I'm genuinely not trying to be provocative here but, can I ask why you own and dive so many different units? I see so many people giving-up CCR because they claim that they can't put enough hours in to stay on top of their game.

Personally, I think those excuses are bullshit and I'm more that happy to do fewer than 30/40 hours some years and still feel confident to dive my JJ, but I'm not sure I'd want to spread the love between a variety of different units. Neither would I want to; if I've picked my ideal unit, which I think I have, why would I spend any time diving any others?

True but if I could justifie the cash id like a compact superlight travel unit for non tec dive holidays

 

[Dave1w]

True but if I could justifie the cash id like a compact superlight travel unit for non tec dive holidays

You should try the spirit LTE. Cheap as chips, lighter than an Al80, and seems to breathe better than it should.


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