Safety of radial vs axial scrubber
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anarchista
New Member
No data is not a fairy tale, fairy tale is when the information is available or easy to obtain.
Are ignored or cheated, such that, the WOB for BMCL is always big.
This is either a fairy tale or a lie, or at worst a lack of knowledge.
This is not a personal attack.
Patent apparently you have to read. I'm not going to publish, my positions have not changed.
greet rc
gianaameri
gian @ gian.ameri.name
When you do not like a thread because it does not suit your beliefs about your favourite unit, you want to get it closed, and you are very successful at this.
I vote against closing this thread, although it is a controversial topic.
gianaameri
gian @ gian.ameri.name
I have your Patent, but cannot read it because it is in Polish.
Translation did not come yet.
However, I cannot post here your Patent or its translation, only you can.
BUT I still have no data.
No Patent and no data = fairy tale.
Nice "fairy tale" though (got my interest) - I like "fairy tales" at Christmas!
anarchista
New Member
Do not you came up with the idea to send scans to describe me, you got a *.txt.
A patent may not be contrary to physics, physiology, mathematics.
Fairy tale may be a fairy tale.
greet rc
gianaameri
gian @ gian.ameri.name
If NO DATA, then RC = Paul .
I ask RC same as I ask Paul, please DATA.
Last time I ask (or Matt will use it as an excuse to have this thread closed which for all intensive purposes would not change anyway the poor performance of one unit vs. another).
Mike Ferguson
WTF is that?
i don't think I can take anymore. is there some way of blanking a thread so you don't see new posts to it....
mike
mike
matt
Well-Known Member
gianaameri
gian @ gian.ameri.name
Yes, ignore the thread or put me and RC (or whomever you want) on ignore.
I find this thread interesting, while many others threads on this forum not interesting.
I ignore most, read some, and participate in few (and even if this thread gets closed it will not change the numbers).
Clare
Retired - going diving
Guys. I find the best thing to do with threads I know are full of posts I have lost interest in is ignore it and look at the next thread on the new threads list.
Using that tactic I have managed to ignore works of Warcraft and APOC threads on several boards
If people wish to continue to debate then that's fine with me as long as it is courteous. You should not feel obliged to read it. Start a thread about something else - although if it is about WoW do not expect me to read it
Using that tactic I have managed to ignore works of Warcraft and APOC threads on several boards
If people wish to continue to debate then that's fine with me as long as it is courteous. You should not feel obliged to read it. Start a thread about something else - although if it is about WoW do not expect me to read it
gianaameri
gian @ gian.ameri.name
So, if any Noob is interested in learning more on the various discussions in this thread, I would recommend to access the 2008 DAN Rebreather Conference here:
DAN Divers Alert Network
It is all very interesting, but I'd like to point out and suggest, as a start:
"Day 2 Morning: Rebreather Workshop"
You can hear Dr. Warkander and Dr. Anthony give their respective views (download the Video Presentation in .mp4 format).
Of particular interest is the section of Dr. Anthony presentation covering WOB and Hydrostatic Imbalance.
I believe he makes it quite clear that the Hydrostatic Imbalance limits in EN14143 are so wide that you can fly a jumbo jet through them (my personal interpretation), reason for which I believe the EN14143 Hydrostatic Imbalance limits are rather meaningless, and favour the NEDU limits (also for WOB and Elastance).
So, when comparing the performance and safety of Radial vs. Axial scrubbers, it is nearly meaningless to be told that they meet "CE," and it is more appropriate to look at the actual numbers themselves, this in order to measure the relative safety of Radial vs. Axial (and the absolute safety using NEDU limits).
Hope this is of help to any Noob who wants to understand more on the topic.
DAN Divers Alert Network
It is all very interesting, but I'd like to point out and suggest, as a start:
"Day 2 Morning: Rebreather Workshop"
You can hear Dr. Warkander and Dr. Anthony give their respective views (download the Video Presentation in .mp4 format).
Of particular interest is the section of Dr. Anthony presentation covering WOB and Hydrostatic Imbalance.
I believe he makes it quite clear that the Hydrostatic Imbalance limits in EN14143 are so wide that you can fly a jumbo jet through them (my personal interpretation), reason for which I believe the EN14143 Hydrostatic Imbalance limits are rather meaningless, and favour the NEDU limits (also for WOB and Elastance).
So, when comparing the performance and safety of Radial vs. Axial scrubbers, it is nearly meaningless to be told that they meet "CE," and it is more appropriate to look at the actual numbers themselves, this in order to measure the relative safety of Radial vs. Axial (and the absolute safety using NEDU limits).
Hope this is of help to any Noob who wants to understand more on the topic.
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Janos
"Two sheds"
Go on. What's an acceptable level of risk when diving. Number please.
No numbers = Fairy Tale...
Janos
gianaameri
gian @ gian.ameri.name
Janos
"Two sheds"
ALARP = Fairy tale unless you define "reasonable" and "practical"
Would you personally get into the water with in a 1 in 1,000 chance of dying? 1 in 10,000? 1 in 100,000? 1 in 1,000,000?
What's your number?
Janos
gianaameri
gian @ gian.ameri.name
ZERO is the target.
ALARP means you do not stop "1 in 1,000 chance of dying? 1 in 10,000? 1 in 100,000? 1 in 1,000,000..."
You constantly evolve, as a person, as a diver, as a configuration, as a man-machine unit... there is no limit.
Don't take it from me. Take it from him:
Normalization Of Deviance Part 1 - YouTube
Normalization Of Deviance Part 2 - YouTube
Normalization Of Deviance Part 3 - YouTube
Normalization Of Deviance Part 4 - YouTube
anarchista
New Member
I submit an official protest, a few data posted ( #13 (permalink) , #64 (permalink) , #76 (permalink) , #94 (permalink) , #103 (permalink) , #159 (permalink) ). Paul, unfortunately, did not give any information. Therefore, a comparison may offend Paul. (joke)
rc greet
gianaameri
gian @ gian.ameri.name
I give you that (you are funny), but it is like a Patentocrat talking to a CEcrat.
A normal person cannot get the number which answers the question and gives a clear picture.
anarchista
New Member
It is difficult to directly compare a number of different designs. Even WOB is now ill-defined purpose. Should be set to the center of the lung. Then even Regulators would not fall out very well. However, such a solution Interspiro in comparison to sensationally dropped.
(You know that DCSC is radial absorber placed on breath.)
greet rc
.
gianaameri
gian @ gian.ameri.name
Now you are talking like a CEcrat.
Who are the Regulators in our sector?
The same people who are here on this forum (directly or by way of their agents and connected persons) and produce rebreathers that in order to be CE (sellable in the EU) must meet the Regulators limits.
Do you expect them to set a "regulatory" limit which their product cannot meet?
"To put it bluntly, device regulation is in disarray: the evidence requirements at the time of approval are woeful, the conduct of notified bodies is sub-standard, and individuals supposedly representing the regulatory system are conflicted and in many cases under-qualified." (not my words!!!).
Numbers please, not "fairy tales."
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