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whodunit68

New Member
when I read this forums and see the "which one should I get?" threads, I run for the hills.
So, which one should I get?

I did a rEvo class back in December but didn't do any diving. The local dive shop ran a great show and I tried 3 more units: Optima, Meg, and Titan.
rEvo: breathing was not the easiest. very easy to setup and break down. very "popular" unit (many of my buddies, friends, and others are diving this unit.) US distributor was my local show for a while. I know and trust them.
Titan: very compact, light, nice fitting unit. Also not the easiest to breathe. I only spent a few minutes on this unit.
Meg: Tom Mount's unit....much easier to breathe than the first two, many of my buddies, friends, and others are diving this unit,) many of the expeditions have Megs on the team.
Optima: many out there, primarily due to Dive Rite's name. However, it *seems* that this is not a popular unit. The cool kids dive the rEvo, the Meg, or the JJ. This was, by far, the easiest to breathe and I felt in great trim (an instructor also commented that it looked good.) It seems like a very simple system and the cartridges, while much more expensive, seem quite handy.

I ran into a RB instructor with an excellent reputation who said to also look at the Hammerhead. I'm only hesitant primarily for the electronics.
Obviously, there's a lot missing in the way of configuring the units to me, etc, etc. I've done a bit of reading and now I've tried a few.
I'm not really asking which one to buy. I'm asking how to decide. Additionally, I'm asking why not the Optima. I've RTFM'd and the sites but I'm trying to pull it all together. I dive 99.9% caves, live in High Springs, and plan to start some longer duration dives. I will never be an 8-hour cave diver but 4-5 is possible. I've done a couple on OC and could see that happening more.

I prefer not to start a religious war and I know that, to some degree, it's inevitable but please, if you can, I'd love the feedback to be about the questions asked rather than whose is bigger. :)
thanks everyone!
 
You forgot to factor in the profile and streamlining of the unit. Other than that what about user service ability, The Revo can easily be fixed in a matter of minutes. No complicated head assemblies to send out for repair, and don't forget the small size and weight if you travel also!
These are some of the small points outside of the mine is bigger mindset that helped me in my decision.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
 
whodunit68 said:
Meg: Tom Mount's unit....much easier to breathe than the first two, many of my buddies, friends, and others are diving this unit,) many of the expeditions have Megs on the team.
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Your in the States & your buddies/friends dive Megs, thought the choice would be simple, get a Meg (and I'm not a Meg fan). There is a lot to be said for having buddies/friends on the same unit, especially when first on the unit, you can tap into their experience & you'll have access to spares in case you haven't got them yourself....

PS - My buddy is selling his Meg & most probably getting a JJ ;)
 
Some things to consider:

-Service, do you have to send it out of the US or is it a US company or at least US service center.
-Rugged Caves depending on size and shape can be hard on gear
-Scrubber durations
-I would put WOB high up on my list since a lot of the Florida caves have flow and even if you do everything correctly you may find yourself in a situation where you want it to breathe really well
-If the architecture of the unit suits the style of diving you do such as cave diving in this instance.
-What features are important to you?

I am biased but I think you should listen to whoever told you to check out a HH. But even if you don't my recommendations for a cave diver are rugged, good work of breathing, open architecture and reliable, how easy it is to plumb in off board etc. After that I would look at nice to have features such as how easy it breaks down (Things like the clic lok system) and bayonet connections etc.
 
Michael brought out some good points. If you would like to take a good look at the HH rebreather and the options that are available give me a PM and I will meet you somewhere N. Fl.
 
Since the single most expensive component of a RB is the electronics, I would have to say that good, reliable, and time proven electronics should be very important consideration.

Shearwater = Awesome

All others = trying to catch up to Shearwater
 
I know my opinion is as valuable to you, as yours is to me, but here goes....

I've been diving a rEvo for about 3 years. In no flow caves, it's wonderful. It's simple. It's got, in my opinion, the most redundancy of any rebreather. 3 completely independant systems to monitor PPO2. Two scrubbers, incase you pack one wrong (which is so friggin unlikely because they are so simple to pack) very few O-rings. It's got RMS. It's small, compact, simple to work on.

But, in high flow caves, compared to other rebreathers mentioned here.... it breathes like shiit. For years, I've said, "how could anything breathe any better. It breathes just like I'm breathing here on the couch. What could be better than that. Then I started diving some OTSCL's. The difference is amazing. Yes, I understand that the rEvo in a certain elevation/trim breathes as good as say a Meg.... But I'm a cave diver. And cave divers shouldn't be pitched up at an angle through the cave.

So, I'm switching. Quite possibly to the Optima. In nearly every orientation, it breathes better than the rEvo. (Lying on your back, it breathes really bad, lol) And here's really what made the decision for me...

The rEvo is simple, redundant, awesome, wonderful and has a lot of things I really love....
But on a 5 hour dive in high flow with back mounted counterlungs.... I'm friggin exhausted. Diving an OTSCL is SOOOOOO less taxing. It's amazing how breathing REALLY easy the entire dive makes a difference over just breathing somewhat easy when doing a long dive in high flow.

I'm going to give up some innovation and redundancy to breathe easier.

Oh, and no way in hell would I ever dive a unit not using Shearwater. Have you seen the reputation some electronics manufacturers have on this board? I'm sure Dsix knows what I mean. Bwahahaha....

Anyway, that's my two cents. It's not worth much. I probably have a 10th of the experience most of these guys have on CCR
 
Local support is huge. Most of the bells and whistles are of limited value in the long term. If your pals dive a certain rig, strongly consider it as their help will be invaluable.

Don't be afraid to pack a scrubber. Easy peasy on all the good rigs.

If you buy a quality rig, it will have decent resale value. Get started and you will never regret it. The rebreather reinvigorated my diving. Nothing like being down and deciding to take another hour, or two.

Watch your PO2!

Have more fun in the water than you thougt possible.

Best of luck with your choice.

Peter
 
I agree front mounted lungs generaly offer a better WOB in diferient orientations and large front mounted lungs (like the Inspo can offer) are amazingly good at flood management.

My concern for cave diveing is:

A: restricted downwards vision

B: Crushing the lungs getting through tight holes causeing breathing restrictions

C: to a far smaller degree, damaging the exposed counterlungs


I 100% agree get Shearwater electronics no matter what unit you chose


WOB? Again I agree I never noticed on wreck dives but cave divesd the WOB realy comes into play. I havent dived an optima but if the WOB is that much better (And its not just a badly rigged unit) its worth considering.

I know if the rEvo is not used with an adjustable harness and set to sit high on the sholders the WOB is affected. Same is true of many rear lung units.

A JJ has excelent WOB Shearwater electrics and trims out well. It also has some flood recovery potential. So thats well worth a try dive.


If i were planning very long dives I would want the radial scrubber potential that I dont think is on offer by the Optima but thats a small limitation if the unit feels right for you.


Ultimatly go with what you feel is right but just use some of the replay on hear to guide you tawards the questions you should be considering.

Good luck

ATB

Mark
 
Mark Chase said:
My concern for cave diveing is:

A: restricted downwards vision

B: Crushing the lungs getting through tight holes causeing breathing restrictions

C: to a far smaller degree, damaging the exposed counterlungs
Click to expand...

A: maybe, I think you get used to it.

B: definitely not an issue. Correctly positioned OTSCLs do not have any gas in front of your chest when you are in a prone position - it is all at shoulder level. I guess it might be an issue in a very tight restriction negotiated steeply head-down, but I think anything like that you're not going to fit through with a CCR on your back anyway.

C: maybe. More chance you'll stay on the loop to get home with a hole in OTSCLs than BMCLs though.

I agree on the WOB argument. I am always a little surprised how many people like to sacrifice this advantage in favour of less clutter on the chest - very nice it's true but not a critical life-support issue.

Andy
 
whodunit68 said:
I'm not really asking which one to buy I'm asking how to decide. Additionally, I'm asking why not the Optima..
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My first RB I bought and still own is the O2ptima. These are my views regarding the RB after about 60 hours total time on the unit:

1) WOB: Comparing to OC, my primary Second stage was a Scubapro A500, secondary S600. Both regulators are known for pretty low WOB. When I dived the O2ptima for the first time I asked my instructor if the unit was broken. It felt if there was no WOB at all. This is one aspect about the unit that still amazes me today.

2) Electronics: It depends if you believe in redundant independent Handsets (HH) or Single Handset (Shearwater Option). I believe in the independent Handset Setup and I am very comfortable with my HH Rev-D and Rev-C choice. I believe both options are still available from DR.

3) Support: I can only compliment DR on their excellent support structure. With the original Electronics problems I was offered affordable alternative solutions.

4) BOV: In my opinion every RB producer should offer one. Sadly DR is not offering a BOV option. I added a Golem Shrimp which is working great.

5) Harness: DR is offering a great choice of Harness / Wing selections. (Both of my buddies has switched to the DR Transpac / Exp Wing once they have experienced mine)

6) Streamline: Since the scrubber sits across the unit, it will produce more drag than the conventional scrubber location (ie parallel to the cylinders)

7) Scrubber Type: The O2ptima ships with Extendair cartridge type scrubbers. In my opinion, the advantages of this type of scrubber are worth the added costs. Unfortunately detailed test data are not readily available wrt to durations specifically for the O2ptima so here you have to develop your own stats.

8) Cave Environment: The O2ptima has undergone extensive testing in Florida Caves. In my opinion the pliable cover protecting cylinders and electronics is a great feature especially in the Cave environment and Aquifers I dive in.

9) HUD: This is an awesome invention I appreciate during each dive. And Deco on the HUD is even better.

Hope that the above can assist you with your buying decision.
 
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apitkin said:
I agree on the WOB argument. I am always a little surprised how many people like to sacrifice this advantage in favour of less clutter on the chest - very nice it's true but not a critical life-support issue.
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On the other hand trying a bunch of other peoples units in the pool is totally useless to evaluate WOB, in fact Humans are useless at evaluating WOB... we are good at detecting hydrostatic loads (ie- unit is fitted wrong because its someone elses and you have to suck like a hooker to get the gas... but that is not the true Work Of Breathing) Put the BEST performing WOB unit on in the wrong way and it'll breath like sh*t.

I would go on to echo jp's comment- I see no appeal in the Meg (or its HH clone) but if all your buddies dive it successfully in the enviroment you will be diving you have a huge and very useful pool of experience, spares and free training to benefit from. In addition one of them will hopefully be kind enough to let you strip one down and see the ugly side of CCR- servicing, refill & reassembly and field maintenance, IMO checking you understand and can live with the day-to-day work required of a particular unit is almost more important to the buying experience than diving one when you have limited experience.

Lastly bear in mind your first CCR might not be right, you will only discover what you want by diving the first "wrong" one so the choice is slightly moot IMO (I started with a SK, then CK, now have MCCR Inspiration, each step closer to perfection, still a way to go though :-)
 
As a long time armchair ccr diver a major factor for me when I finally took the plunge was flood tolerence and recovery. OTSCL units have this, back mounted not so much. I get the attraction to a clutter free chest but have found that with time most of the advantages outweigh the clutter issue. These advantages include, they breath well in most positions (call that what you wish), as they are easy to drain the flood issues are obvious, on mine MAV are included and easy to manipulate, and finally, they are easy to service and clean.

I have done a little caving with mine and as I have a tendency to want to dash into too tight spots, I have grounded out. What I have found is that the lungs are a none issue. Flat out jammed I can breath just fine. The hoses are taking a bit of a beating though. The big issue for tight spots is the size of the can.

The advice to see how easy any rig is to look after is good. It takes some time to work out what that means however. I find it easy to throw my counter lungs in the sink. Others with case inter grated lungs claim a quicker rebuild time. I never use any sterilizing agents and my loop is always fresh. I see some interesting grungy looking stuff in outher peoples counter lungs despite a propensity for chemical warfare.

There is a thread on here about plug and play and electrical connections in a marine environment. What I see is an inverse relationship between complexity and reliability.

Peter
 
PeterN said:
As a long time armchair ccr diver a major factor for me when I finally took the plunge was flood tolerence and recovery. OTSCL units have this, back mounted not so much.
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The JJ combines BMCL with the flood recovery of FMCL. So your statement is not really true. You have to have an OPV on the exhale lung that you can reach to open while you flush. Just like front CLs.

I think Steve needs to focus on what features he wants instead of a brand. But servicing and reliability are key.
 
BMCLS with Tpieces and water traps definitely make the unit flood tolerant and recoverable. In my experience I still think FMCLs are easier to drain the water out of. But you definitely can do it with BMCLS it is just not as easy.
 
kwinter said:
I think Steve needs to focus on what features he wants instead of a brand.
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Isn't that virtually the same thing in this space?
How does one with literally zero experience really know which features are important?
I know the rebreathers that I dove for 30 minutes or less with OTSCL's breathed amazing especially compared to the ones with BMCL's that I dove.

I sincerely appreciate the input/thoughts/experience/feedback that you all have shared and am taking it in. I'm close. One thing I can't seem to let go of is that people around me dive Megs and rEvos.
 
I had planned to buy a rEvo but the folks I would be training with and to some degree diving with were diving Hammerheads.

I decided to get the HH extreme and despite some initial trepidation I am very happy with my choice.

There is a great deal of value in diving a unit that your buddies dive. In the end, as someone said, you won't really know until you spend some hours on the machine.
 
whodunit68 said:
How does one with literally zero experience really know which features are important?
Click to expand...

The one thing you can hang on to is that your first rebreather is not likely to be your last. Everyone finds things they don't like and would do differently. If you accept that premise, then the first one is like a starter home. Something to get you into RB diving, but not the end of the line.
 
kwinter said:
The one thing you can hang on to is that your first rebreather is not likely to be your last. Everyone finds things they don't like and would do differently. If you accept that premise, then the first one is like a starter home. Something to get you into RB diving, but not the end of the line.
Click to expand...

***unless your first rebreather happens to be a rEvo***
 
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