HH: Worth Considering

[jcook]

Can you provide the reason for the rebreather being out of service?

Thanks


... and when you breath from it you instantly feel better about life. [The Hammerhead]

The owner's handsets (both Rev D) would reset during the dive and I believe the secondary (Rev D) finally crapped out on the owner. The other one (that I know of the 4) the LCD screen (Rev C+) started showing weird characters and would lock up on the owner.

The rEvo and the Meg's worked wonderfully though.....

 

[cferrar]

Interesting, I see a number of complaints, but I almost never see a HH for sale second hand.

 

[jkaterenchuk]

Interesting, I see a number of complaints, but I almost never see a HH for sale second hand.

http://www.ccrexplorers.com/showthread.php?t=14625

I know shameless.....:banana1:

 

[Dave Sutton]

This is telling, and corroborates my own prior experiences and experiences of others who have contacted me with their stories:

For Kevin to complain and threaten people who share negative experiences on line is shameful.

And should be compared to Randy's comment:

I also have no knowledge of people being blackmailed to keep quite on internet forums by threats of withholding service.

Sounds like "A Tale of Two Rebreathers"

Interesting, I see a number of complaints, but I almost never see a HH for sale second hand.

Numerically they are far outnumbered by other rigs. Really... they are a speedbump on the rebreather highway.

Interesting about the REV D stuff crapping out. I'm not surprised.... <sigh>... it's still the same old story.



(sorry... low hanging fruit gets plucked and one dancing-bannana deserves another)


Dave

.

 

[Garth]

Well if anyone is selling a hammerhead I might know someone who would want to buy one...

This is telling, and corroborates my own prior experiences and experiences of others who have contacted me with their stories:





And should be compared to Randy's comment:





Sounds like "A Tale of Two Rebreathers"







Numerically they are far outnumbered by other rigs. Really... they are a speedbump on the rebreather highway.

Interesting about the REV D stuff crapping out. I'm not surprised.... <sigh>... it's still the same old story.



(sorry... low hanging fruit gets plucked and one dancing-bannana deserves another)


Dave

.

 

[DSix36]

Well if anyone is selling a hammerhead I might know someone who would want to buy one...

Why in the hell would some one buy one? I figure that if someone is that unintelligent, then they should not be using a rebreather in the first place.

I always thought the hammerhead rebreather might be a nice piece of kit if it just had some reliable (pronounced as Shearwater) electronics on it.

 

[JONT]

Interesting, I see a number of complaints, but I almost never see a HH for sale second hand.

Thats because they're outnumbered by a huge margin

The HH does have some strong points but Kevin needs to handle some basic issues:

1) Old electronic issues, handsets resetting, battery issues and software bugs need to be handled once and for all.

2) He needs someone who knows and understands RB's to interact with clients, while Trish does her best she is responsible for to much so to many mistakes are made.

3) PAY ATTENTION TO DETAILS.....dont ship units with delrin shavings in them,seal channels in the head where C02 bypass is a remote possibility, before sending parts check to see what the customer bought so compatibility isnt a problem, if a customer sends you a head with cells in it......return them...

I think if the above can be handled I'll bet even the most scorned would take a second look.

While the HH Extreme is a work of art Kevin should offer Shearwater controller options for people that want it, there's a reason why so many manufacturers like Shearwater, its because they are a well run company that stands behind a product that is simply the best all around controller made today.

Personally I wish Kevin luck but will never buy anything from him again.

 

[JONT]

Why in the hell would some one buy one? I figure that if someone is that unintelligent, then they should not be using a rebreather in the first place.

I always thought the hammerhead rebreather might be a nice piece of kit if it just had some reliable (pronounced as Shearwater) electronics on it.

+1 very funny and spot on.

 

[Randy Thornton]

Got to love this stuff! :yawn:

If anyone has a used Hammerhead Rev C or Rev D for sale, I know a number of people who are potentially interested. As previously mentioned, the used units are hard to come by. Send me a PM if you or someone you know has one available.

 

[JONT]

Got to love this stuff! :yawn:

If anyone has a used Hammerhead Rev C or Rev D for sale, I know a number of people who are potentially interested. As previously mentioned, the used units are hard to come by. Send me a PM if you or someone you know has one available.

I have a REV C classic but I'd be interested in selling the electronics only and keeping the head for a side mount project.

I'd also be interested in buying an Extreme head with no electronics to fit a REVO analog controller and Revo dreams in.

Jon

 

[cferrar]

I have a REV C classic but I'd be interested in selling the electronics only and keeping the head for a side mount project.

I'd also be interested in buying an Extreme head with no electronics to fit a REVO analog controller and Revo dreams in.

Jon

I have a dumb question, it looks to me like Golem sells a classic head with bayonet ports on their web site. Why not get one of those and sell your current head in tact?

 

[Dave Sutton]

As I said, the term "Hammerhead Rebreather" is a bit of a red herring.

There is no Rebreather manufactured by JM.

There is a Czech Rebreather imported by Golem and then provided without electronics under a marketing agreement with JM. They are then fitted by JM with HH electronics and marketed as a HH rebreather.

The same rebreather can be bought as spare parts from Golem without an electronics package for "experimentation", if you really wanted to have one with a Shearwater controller, etc.

At that point... it's just another modular can and head with a scrubber inside and a pair of counterlungs attached.


Dave

.

 

[w ripley]

. . . There is no Rebreather manufactured by JM.

There is a Czech Rebreather imported by Golem and then provided without electronics under a marketing agreement with JM. They are then fitted by JM with HH electronics and marketed as a HH rebreather. . .

Dave

Dave,

What you are saying about how the HH is made & assembled is true.

But I wonder how significant it really is? I suspect that most of the companies selling RBs are responsible for their unit's design & final assembly, with other components being produced/machined by other vendors. Who makes - in house - their own loop hoses, for example?

I'm obviously happy with my unit & with Jakub's ability to provide parts. BTW, since owning the unit I've developed a deep respect for the Czech's manufacturing skills. The quality is top shelf. So, I look at the JM/GG relationship as a + for us end users. It's nice to be able to open the GG website and realize that a "real" RB diver must own the shop.

Oh, did anyone mention that both Kevin & Jakub regularly dive the HH? Nothing wrong with the designer & "manufacturer" being in the water with the product. It's probably one reason why the unit is constantly being tweaked, and for the better, from both components & electronics ends. You've got to love the bayonet (snap on/snap off) hose fittings, for example, with the GG BOV & the HH Extreme Head.

One thing I really like about the JM electronics, and I mentioned this to you on another thread, is the unit's ability to warn you when the loop is either hypoxic & hyperoxic. The DIVA vibrates and flashes at both thresholds, and the solenoid automatically opens to add O2 at the hypoxic threshold.

I started with a Meg with HH electronics and moved to the HH RB. I was happy with the Meg & its canister operation, and have been equally pleased with the HH RB & its similar operation. The subtle differences between the two are important to me & I see more people diving the HH unit than would be inferred from some of the posts above.

Personally, I still believe that it is a unit worth considering more than ever.

 

[Dave Sutton]

^^

My point is that if you *really* wanted to you could buy the chassis and not need to be locked into the POS electronics, which is the sorest sore-point to many. With Shearwater 'lekkies it would go from being "one thing" to another. The chassis is great. It's the JM "added value" that is not been proven satisfactory if a sample size larger than a few is polled.

If you really truly honestly think highly of the HH electronics, bless your heart. I would never own them in a hundred years.

Dave

.

 

[DSix36]

^^

My point is that if you *really* wanted to you could buy the chassis and not need to be locked into the POS electronics, which is the sorest sore-point to many. With Shearwater 'lekkies it would go from being "one thing" to another. The chassis is great. It's the JM "added value" that is not been proven satisfactory if a sample size larger than a few is polled.

If you really truly honestly think highly of the HH electronics, bless your heart. I would never own them in a hundred years.

Dave

.

+1
But you have to admit that the hammerhead HUD is a great thing, just too bad it is connected to those @&$!*# handsets.

 

[JONT]

Dave,

What you are saying about how the HH is made & assembled is true.

But I wonder how significant it really is? I suspect that most of the companies selling RBs are responsible for their unit's design & final assembly, with other components being produced/machined by other vendors. Who makes - in house - their own loop hoses, for example?

I'm obviously happy with my unit & with Jakub's ability to provide parts. BTW, since owning the unit I've developed a deep respect for the Czech's manufacturing skills. The quality is top shelf. So, I look at the JM/GG relationship as a + for us end users. It's nice to be able to open the GG website and realize that a "real" RB diver must own the shop.

Oh, did anyone mention that both Kevin & Jakub regularly dive the HH? Nothing wrong with the designer & "manufacturer" being in the water with the product. It's probably one reason why the unit is constantly being tweaked, and for the better, from both components & electronics ends. You've got to love the bayonet (snap on/snap off) hose fittings, for example, with the GG BOV & the HH Extreme Head.

One thing I really like about the JM electronics, and I mentioned this to you on another thread, is the unit's ability to warn you when the loop is either hypoxic & hyperoxic. The DIVA vibrates and flashes at both thresholds, and the solenoid automatically opens to add O2 at the hypoxic threshold.

I started with a Meg with HH electronics and moved to the HH RB. I was happy with the Meg & its canister operation, and have been equally pleased with the HH RB & its similar operation. The subtle differences between the two are important to me & I see more people diving the HH unit than would be inferred from some of the posts above.

Personally, I still believe that it is a unit worth considering more than ever.

Hi Bill,

You have a lot of valid points, if JM is adding electronics to a "modular unit" thats just fine and if the margins work its good, smart business.

The DIVA is wonderful and its arguably the best HUD out there additionally the HH holds a set point better then any other unit out there, it just doesn't stray that much BUT all of these cool features are dependent on performance and the issues that JM has are YEARS old so they should have been handled by now and why do the same things keep coming up????????

The answer is that whatever solutions JM has developed are temp fixes rather then properly engineered and tested solutions.

There have been so many issues with JM electronics and in comparison I've had relatively few (just a few handset resets underwater) aside from the annoying software bugs and bricks for handsets that are a mere inconvenience.

Bottom line is that JM needs to bring its game up to a new level if it plans to compete.

My MEG is a a 5+YO 2.05 (with potted electronics) that has NEVER been back to the shop, yet its works flawlessly. Never cost me a single dive.

My REVO is 14 months old now its never left my possession and has never had any issues or cost me a single dive.

THERE IS NOT A SINGLE HAMMERHEAD DIVER THAT CAN HONESTLY SAY THEY HAVE NEVER HAD TO HAVE THERE HEAD FIXED OVER A 5 YEAR PERIOD.

and that just shouldn't be.

 

[Igor]

Hi Bill,

You have a lot of valid points, if JM is adding electronics to a "modular unit" thats just fine and if the margins work its good, smart business.

The DIVA is wonderful and its arguably the best HUD out there additionally the HH holds a set point better then any other unit out there, it just doesn't stray that much BUT all of these cool features are dependent on performance and the issues that JM has are YEARS old so they should have been handled by now and why do the same things keep coming up????????

The answer is that whatever solutions JM has developed are temp fixes rather then properly engineered and tested solutions.

There have been so many issues with JM electronics and in comparison I've had relatively few (just a few handset resets underwater) aside from the annoying software bugs and bricks for handsets that are a mere inconvenience.

Bottom line is that JM needs to bring its game up to a new level if it plans to compete.

My MEG is a a 5+YO 2.05 (with potted electronics) that has NEVER been back to the shop, yet its works flawlessly. Never cost me a single dive.

My REVO is 14 months old now its never left my possession and has never had any issues or cost me a single dive.

THERE IS NOT A SINGLE HAMMERHEAD DIVER THAT CAN HONESTLY SAY THEY HAVE NEVER HAD TO HAVE THERE HEAD FIXED OVER A 5 YEAR PERIOD.

and that just shouldn't be.

Close the thread. This is getting annoying. It sucks, we got it.

 

[DSix36]

Close the thread. This is getting annoying. It sucks, we got it.

Not trying to annoy you any further, but YOU do not have to read the thread. Just go to a different thread if you don't like what is being posted in this one.

 

[Mark Chase]

Close the thread. This is getting annoying. It sucks, we got it.

AS above if you dont like it go to a diferent thread.

Persoanly i was gutted when having spent a small fortune on a HH head i discovered a shead load of people were having a shead load of problems with them but no one was posting about it.

My 2p?

Send a free HH CCR to DSix36 and let him dive it for a year.

Then he should do a product report on it.

If he's not interested ill do it. If it works ill say so. If it fails? ill say so.


ATB

Mark

 

[DSix36]

AS above if you dont like it go to a diferent thread.

Persoanly i was gutted when having spent a small fortune on a HH head i discovered a shead load of people were having a shead load of problems with them but no one was posting about it.

My 2p?

Send a free HH CCR to DSix36 and let him dive it for a year.

Then he should do a product report on it.

If he's not interested ill do it. If it works ill say so. If it fails? ill say so.


ATB

Mark

Excellent idea Mark, but getting Kevin to agree might be the real task. I would even post product reviews as I trained and learned the unit, both good and bad.

I had no idea that the hammerhead rebreather was suffering all the failures it was until at least one user grew a set of balls and posted about it. It seems that it is catching on and people are not a shy about it as they once were.

A little side track - I know of several optima users that would not post about any problems for the simple reason of not wanting to piss Kevin off and possibly effecting the cost/qualtity of their repairs. Many of them are more vocal about it now that they no longer live in fear of not being able to get their electronics serviced.