Free Dave Sutton.

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To give dave his due, he did used to say 'play the ball, not the man'. Taking that forward, a game without referees tends to end up as a straight brawl.

So, clever players play within the rules and push the boundaries. If you overstep the mark, you might have to accept time in the sin bin. You can grizzle, but sometimes its the reminder we need of the boundaries.

Come back deeparmchair, all is forgiven :devilban:
 
ebt said:
... So, clever players play within the rules and push the boundaries. If you overstep the mark, you might have to accept time in the sin bin. You can grizzle, but sometimes its the reminder we need of the boundaries....
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Objective boundaries are great because people know them. Subjective boundaries are much harder to understand and to believe are being policed in a fair way. One side or the other always feels that they got the short shaft on subjective items.
 
We talk to F-ing much about DAVE.

The next time I see him I am going to whack him in the back of the head with a shovel to put him and us out of our misery.
 
Mr fish said:
One good thing that has come out of all this is ,
Now when i read something posted on this forum by a forum member ,
ill know that the post is not just a guy giving his unbiased opinion.
of some rec ccr, or what ever , its posted by someone with a commercial interest in selling me something ,
much like the heollis explorer thread ,
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I can think of an example that fully illustrates your frustration!

The "It all works!" review on RBW followed a year later when the writing was on the wall and allegiances changed to "What I should have said was, "It all works, just not very well". I seem to remember pictures of a truck full of boxes of top-secret "stuff" heading back from DEMA in Florida, never to be seen again.... <sigh>

Since you're posting this on a thread about our man Dave, you must be reflecting on that level of honest and unbiased opinion by someone with no commercial interest in selling something.

I can see how the Explorer thread would strike you as "commercial" postings by interested parties (and you are correct, I am an interested party. I am proud of that in fact, and have stated on several threads when questioned, that others should wait for reviews from "unbiased" users.) But holding Dave up as a shining example of unbiased information given his recent history seems a bit partisan, if not myopic, in my opinion.
 
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Mr fish said:
I enjoy reading post when i see other,s with a different point of view,
and Dave has that different point of view , and make,s for good reading .

Seems once again Dave,s out in the cold,
I sent him some green just this week , saying hold back a bit m8 , you cant go round telling the truth , they will be after your blood .

mmmmmm seems to so ,

ill miss his input , and i think this forum will go the way of the burger,
ie i log in read for 3 mins and long out nothing to see or debate, as they are all singing from the same photocopied Sheet,

Dave has been rubbing the new boss for some time ,
and id be hard pushed to think this ban has feek all to do with that ,

good luck to you Dave, :worship:

just my two bob ,
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Agreed. I don't always agree with what he says but at least he says it. Burgerworld ended up with everyone on the latest fashion unit all reading out the TDI manual or the manufacturer's instruction book, all afraid to be the one that's different. I hope CCRX doesn't end up the same way.
 
There have been some considered, and some funny posts on this issue. I may have been too free with my thanks as I may now seem inconsistant with the following statement.

I think we are the poorer for the loss of Dave. Obviously I am not party to all that tranpired, but I feel that a ban is a blunt instrument that serves us badly.

Some of us have a history that predisposes us to discount each others comments. JonT once called me a name, but I still value his input depite him being a *(@!!!!% redneck. My point being that, while it pains me to publicly agree with Jon, he is absoloutly correct on this issue. If you don't like what you read, call it BS or just turn the page.

One of the attractions of this site is that most of the moderation has been light. We are all sort of grown up and can, or at least should be able to sort the wheat from the manure.

Let us not be like that other place where bans are the order of the day. I think that if one or another of us acts up they should be called for it. I don't include in this flagrant abuse, but feel we should be able have a fair bit of lattitude and a mostly open forum.

Oh, and Jon, my only regret is that I do not have the chance to easily sit down over a bottle of single malt and a great Cuban cigar so that I can reeducate you! :naughty:

Peter
 
Good post Peter.

I'd make one comment though. Board owners are legally liable for forums and participation is not a right. It can be a difficult job and when someone is making a fuss away from the forums, via PMs or emails it may not be apparent to the general membership what is going on.

Banning people cannot be done lightly, especially well respected posters. We who run forums all recognise that without content there is no forum and posts bring members and traffic.

However, if everyone who runs a forum gets aggro to the point they don't want to do it anymore, that will end up with passionate forum owners who kick off boards for the benefit of the community saying sod it and either turning it off or selling up to web advertisers as has been seen in another uk forum.

I get why people are supportive of Dave. He gave a lot here.

I get why people have said thank you to me and Al for setting this place up.

Perhaps it would be useful to understand that board owners do not look for scapegoats or trouble makers. We like a quiet life where people debate diving and share experiences and generally get on with it. For every moderation decision I have made here there have been ten considered and rejected as unnecessary. Try to support your moderation team please - they are as much part of the community as anyone else and the board would not function without them.
 
We can only step up to his mark and try and replace his comments until he is allowed to return...

Does this help to fill the sutton shaped hole in the mean time...

'This one time at the meg factory me and leon......'



Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
 
Clare said:
Board owners are legally liable for forums .
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Is this a UK thing??? in the states this is not the case.



We have the Communications Decency Act that states clearly that that no provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as a publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information provider.
 
Clare said:
Good post Peter.

I'd make one comment though. Board owners are legally liable for forums and participation is not a right. It can be a difficult job and when someone is making a fuss away from the forums, via PMs or emails it may not be apparent to the general membership what is going on.

Banning people cannot be done lightly, especially well respected posters. We who run forums all recognise that without content there is no forum and posts bring members and traffic.

However, if everyone who runs a forum gets aggro to the point they don't want to do it anymore, that will end up with passionate forum owners who kick off boards for the benefit of the community saying sod it and either turning it off or selling up to web advertisers as has been seen in another uk forum.

I get why people are supportive of Dave. He gave a lot here.

I get why people have said thank you to me and Al for setting this place up.

Perhaps it would be useful to understand that board owners do not look for scapegoats or trouble makers. We like a quiet life where people debate diving and share experiences and generally get on with it. For every moderation decision I have made here there have been ten considered and rejected as unnecessary. Try to support your moderation team please - they are as much part of the community as anyone else and the board would not function without them.
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AH no Clair they are not ....... even in the socialist EU They are NOT.

This is however an excuse that board owners around the world use in an attempt to justify if not rationalize breaking the rules when it suits a commercial interest.

In short its total nonsense as MONKEY pointed out.

And so you know I spent 1 hour one the phone with the international law firm that represents me (at $1000.00 per hour) to discuss this issue.

Cheers,

Jon
 
JONT said:
AH no Clair they are not ....... even in the socialist EU They are NOT.

This is however an excuse that board owners around the world use in an attempt to justify if not rationalize breaking the rules when it suits a commercial interest.

In short its total nonsense as MONKEY pointed out.

And so you know I spent 1 hour one the phone with the international law firm that represents me (at $1000.00 per hour) to discuss this issue.

Cheers,

Jon
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You should have phoned me Jon, I'd have told you for nowt! :)
 
JONT said:
And so you know I spent 1 hour one the phone with the international law firm that represents me (at $1000.00 per hour) to discuss this issue.

Cheers,

Jon
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With respect, you probably didn't ask them about UK law.
 
Suprabones said:
I'll share a quote from a conversation this morning between Dave and I.

" I bring but I do not take.

Nobody should fight to give away his intellectual value to those who do not wish to receive it. Ill help those who make the effort to find me. " - Dave.
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And this ^^^^ is exactly the problem....!!!

A pervading and now self-confessed messianic attitude that "there is nothing for me to learn on CCRX ("I bring but I do not take"). I only visit there to dispense my unrivalled knowledge to the ignorant masses, and my absence is their loss".

Dave will be back I suspect, and I have made my views on his potential value clear on the "Future thread". But in the meantime he needs to accept that his presence is not the rebreather equivalent of the second coming. He is here (as we all are) to exchange ideas in areas of uncertainty, teach in areas related to his expertise, and to learn in respect of matters where he is not an expert.

Finally,

ebt said:
To give dave his due, he did used to say 'play the ball, not the man'.
Click to expand...

Yes, he did used to say that, but was very clever at subtly not playing by his own rules. Some of the most damaging instances may not have been obvious to most.

Simon M
 
PeterN said:
There have been some considered, and some funny posts on this issue. I may have been too free with my thanks as I may now seem inconsistant with the following statement.

I think we are the poorer for the loss of Dave. Obviously I am not party to all that tranpired, but I feel that a ban is a blunt instrument that serves us badly.

Some of us have a history that predisposes us to discount each others comments. JonT once called me a name, but I still value his input depite him being a *(@!!!!% redneck. My point being that, while it pains me to publicly agree with Jon, he is absoloutly correct on this issue. If you don't like what you read, call it BS or just turn the page.

One of the attractions of this site is that most of the moderation has been light. We are all sort of grown up and can, or at least should be able to sort the wheat from the manure.

Let us not be like that other place where bans are the order of the day. I think that if one or another of us acts up they should be called for it. I don't include in this flagrant abuse, but feel we should be able have a fair bit of lattitude and a mostly open forum.

Oh, and Jon, my only regret is that I do not have the chance to easily sit down over a bottle of single malt and a great Cuban cigar so that I can reeducate you! :naughty:

Peter
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Peter:

HAHAHA very well plaid in deed my friend, my hat's off to you.

I look forward to it. I have one bottle of 50 year old left and I'll save it for our meeting. Although your political views are flawed and comical at best it will be a good day.

Jon
 
MatthewA said:
I can think of an example that fully illustrates your frustration!

The "It all works!" review on RBW followed a year later when the writing was on the wall and allegiances changed to "What I should have said was, "It all works, just not very well". I seem to remember pictures of a truck full of boxes of top-secret "stuff" heading back from DEMA in Florida, never to be seen again.... <sigh>

Since you're posting this on a thread about our man Dave, you must be reflecting on that level of honest and unbiased opinion by someone with no commercial interest in selling something.

I can see how the Explorer thread would strike you as "commercial" postings by interested parties (and you are correct, I am an interested party. I am proud of that in fact, and have stated on several threads when questioned, that others should wait for reviews from "unbiased" users.) But holding Dave up as a shining example of unbiased information given his recent history seems a bit partisan, if not myopic, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

lol so true ,
if you read the last bit in my said post , i say when are man Dave is talking BS i know who is talking ,

when i read the Explorer thread , at first read, to me looked like a guy/forum member posting, its only when i read on and see the tag team at work do i see a lot more ,

now if some one pops on this forum and reads that explorer post do you think hes getting the full sp on said unit or just the sales pitch , :sigh:
 
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