Do you wear a helmet when scootering?

gianaameri

gianaameri

gian @ gian.ameri.name
Chatted with some fellow cave divers today and learned of a relatively recent fatality (April).

The cave diver I was speaking to today told me he found a dead diver in a cave and the fatality was due to a collision with the cave while he was scootering.

He was not wearing a helmet.

What is "best practice" when scootering in a cave (i.e. according to DIR and other training agencies...)?
 
Look where you are going!

Good trim, horizontal to the cave passage, helps avoid issues. Downward protruding rocks or ledges can still present a hazard but again, look where you are going.

I've seen some pretty spectacular accidents, sheared off valves etc, but not scalp injuries (apart from on a boat in the channel so perhaps we should use them for wreck diving) still wouldn't want a helmet for cave diving.

I'm not that anti helmets. I'm sold on helmets for dry caving - 10 minutes proper caving taught me that one and many many times I've been thankful I've been wearing one. I've never hit my head cave diving or scootering.

If I had to wear a helmet to cave to the dive able cave I'd probably wear it all the way through. Helmet mounted lights a different story - no time for them.
 
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In a cave I would, its comon sense

The "look where your going" answer dosen't cut much ice on building sites in the UK when HSE turn up

Why wear a seat belt? Just dont crash.

ATB

Mark
 
Clare said:
Look where you are going!

Good trim, horizontal to the cave passage, helps avoid issues. Downward protruding rocks or ledges can still present a hazard but again, look where you are going.

I've seen some pretty spectacular accidents, sheared off valves etc, but not scalp injuries (apart from on a boat in the channel so perhaps we should use them for wreck diving)

I'm not that anti helmets. I'm sold on helmets for dry caving - 10 minutes proper caving taught me that one and many many times I've been thankful I've been wearing one. I've never hit my head cave diving or scootering.

If I had to wear a helmet to cave to the dive able cave I'd probably wear it all the way through. Helmet mounted lights a different story - no time for them.
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I seem to manage not to hit my head, but cannot say the same for the rebreather (so I cover the breathing hoses with double cordura).
 
Might be a regional variation here, but the vast majority of US cave divers do not wear helmets, scootering or not. That holds true over my 15 years of caved diving experience.

When I first started cave diving, I did try a helmet. Here's what I found:

1. it limits your field of vision
2. it limits your head mobility
3. it's heavy and makes your neck hurt
4. lights on a helmet are useless, they blind your teammates and they cannot be used for communication

I understand Mark's argument from a safety perspective, but one could also argue that wearing a helmet could make one more cavalier- and could lead to the diver paying less attention to not hitting the cave, with their head or anything else. I actually have a friend who is a competitive ski racer- he refuses to wear a helmet because he says it makes him take more chance.

Just another perspective.
 
Possibly less regional variation and more conditions to reach the water.

Nothing like a hard dry slog down 45 degree cave for 20 minutes or more to get you thinking more about the dry caving requirements (which are harder) than the underwater stuff. First time I did it I got why solo, small cylinders, wet suits, weeklies and helmets were used. If you need to lug everything with you to get to the water and again for through the other side you are going to dive in it too.

I'm with you on the 'better to take care than take chances' argument. The restriction in comfort and field of view in my caving helmet is noticeable but I accept it makes climbing safer. I cannot make the same judgment about the impact it would hav on diving.
 
Chickdiver said:
Might be a regional variation here, but the vast majority of US cave divers do not wear helmets, scootering or not. That holds true over my 15 years of caved diving experience.

When I first started cave diving, I did try a helmet. Here's what I found:

1. it limits your field of vision
2. it limits your head mobility
3. it's heavy and makes your neck hurt
4. lights on a helmet are useless, they blind your teammates and they cannot be used for communication

I understand Mark's argument from a safety perspective, but one could also argue that wearing a helmet could make one more cavalier- and could lead to the diver paying less attention to not hitting the cave, with their head or anything else. I actually have a friend who is a competitive ski racer- he refuses to wear a helmet because he says it makes him take more chance.

Just another perspective.
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I find none of the 4 problems you encounter with helmet (you may have to find the right helmet to start, and then modify it by cutting off all those sections which cause problems).

On point 4., actually today was quite fun.

I usually dive "solo" (training agency "DISS" - Do-It-Solo-&S t r o k e) and in the cave today there was a team of 3 DIR (and of course every time they saw me they circled their light to ask if I was O.K...).

I do not signal normally with the light (we have very few signals at DISS... when a buddy wants to turn the dive we give a "hand-shake" meaning "great, have a nice exit, I go on with my dive, bye bye"), but had to figure something out there and then how to respond to their signal - circled my head twice (facing the same spot they had circled their light) and it made the perfect response, same as if I had a handheld umbilical torch.
 
Clare said:
Possibly less regional variation and more conditions to reach the water.

Nothing like a hard dry slog down 45 degree cave for 20 minutes or more to get you thinking more about the dry caving requirements (which are harder) than the underwater stuff. First time I did it I got why solo, small cylinders, wet suits, weeklies and helmets were used. If you need to lug everything with you to get to the water and again for through the other side you are going to dive in it too.

I'm with you on the 'better to take care than take chances' argument. The restriction in comfort and field of view in my caving helmet is noticeable but I accept it makes climbing safer. I cannot make the same judgment about the impact it would hav on diving.
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I don't dry cave, and have absolutely zero interest in that, so.... my frame of reference is different. My frame of reference is Florida and Mexico caves.
 
Indeed as was mine until more recently (well including Dominican republic and France)

Give dry caving a go - it's fun and bloody good exercise. Mind you we do spend most of our time looking at steep pitches wishing it was full of water (mind you 250-300 meters down I guess we wouldn't be there if it was!)

I think the point I'm making is there can be dives where different gear may be best - or at least explainable.
 
Clare said:
Indeed as was mine until more recently (well including Dominican republic and France)

Give dry caving a go - it's fun and bloody good exercise. Mind you we do spend most of our time looking at steep pitches wishing it was full of water (mind you 250-300 meters down I guess we wouldn't be there if it was!)

I think the point I'm making is there can be dives where different gear may be best - or at least explainable.
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I'll agree with the idea that different types of dives can have different requirements- that only makes sense.

As for dry caving- thanks, but no thanks.... I can't think of anything that sounds ~less~ intriguing (to me)! My life has revolved around diving since 1986, and the only other real hobby I have is shooting, which takes a back seat.
 
Chickdiver said:
I'll agree with the idea that different types of dives can have different requirements- that only makes sense.

As for dry caving- thanks, but no thanks.... I can't think of anything that sounds ~less~ intriguing (to me)! My life has revolved around diving since 1986, and the only other real hobby I have is shooting, which takes a back seat.
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You can combine the lot (and different types of dives indeed can have different requirements).

With the AKM you can exit the water, empty the barrel, and fire right way (there is the theoretical risk of overpressure in the barrell, but it works)... and no need to wear a helmet as indeed it slows you down!
 
For me it depends on what gear I am using - while backmounting i never wear a helmet, makes no sence - when you hit the cave you hit with the cylinders/valves. as they are the highest point. ok in decorated cave it is possible to hit your head, but then maybe you shouldent be scootering this part of the cave if there is not suficient roome to navigate in BM without hitting your head on formations. also the hood will take a fair bit of the impact if you are unlucky enough to actually hit something.

In sidemount - I sometimes wear a helmet! my head is suddenly the highest point, and I am going through way smaller things! i started without a helmet, and well now i bring it on most sidemount dives, where the cave is either small, I am scootering or I am exploring as the third hand comes in very handy while surveying.
Problem with the helmet is that your profile becomes bigger, it limits the slip of the hoses, makes it more a hassel to push cylinders infront of you and it looks rather stupid :( - i fixed this as my helmet is bright yellow with a picture of a dancing fox on the front. now I dont feel stupid at all anymore :S
 
Helmets for scootering ... don't make me laugh. How fast do you think you are actually going? 1/2 to 1/3 walking speed??? 45m per min (pretty fast for cave scootering) is 2.7km per hour - you are much more at risk of banging your head harder gearing up in your car.
 
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