Any Talk Over Here About The New Mares Horizon SCR
- Thread starter Chett. L
- Start date
haaginheimer
Member
No.
If it was 2k or allowed an upgrade to CCR then it would make sense.
It's going to be like the hollis
If it was 2k or allowed an upgrade to CCR then it would make sense.
It's going to be like the hollis
Petemes
Member
I too am interested to hear all about these SCR's. Some of the comments I have read round social media are things like - "revolutionising rebreather diving - Change the way we dive rebreathers forever - etc" So I am really interested to hear how this unit will do this. New Technology? New Training approaches?
First thoughts are, it looks really nicely made. Nice lines. But am a little confused about what the thinking was. Recreational SCR - I get it. But why not attach the cylinders to the unit? Having two stages? - Is one for O2 and the other for DIL or are both DIL seeing that its a SCR?. Might be a bit much for "Joe Recreational diver". Also I guess when we get to learn exactly how the unit works it will answer these questions. I wait with interest on this.
First thoughts are, it looks really nicely made. Nice lines. But am a little confused about what the thinking was. Recreational SCR - I get it. But why not attach the cylinders to the unit? Having two stages? - Is one for O2 and the other for DIL or are both DIL seeing that its a SCR?. Might be a bit much for "Joe Recreational diver". Also I guess when we get to learn exactly how the unit works it will answer these questions. I wait with interest on this.
There are a lot of naysayers on the interwebs comenting about this unit and I admit I'm sceptical about the commercial viability of an SCR for the recreational market but I'll save that discussion for another thread. The Horizon's dual scrubber design—one of the positives of the original rEvo is good but I'm also puzzled by the off-board gas gas set up, as well as a few other things. I'm looking forward to seeing the unit at OzTek and answering some of these questions.
ECho
Member
In regards to the nitrox tanks being off board, think about it.... one of the least appealing characteristics of some of the older SCR’s is the twin 7 liter (50 cuft) tanks attached on either side of the scubber.... HEAVY.... as an SCR does need considerably more gas than 3l.
A big part of the marketing materials that we’ve seen stresses the lightweight of the Horizon. Having the nitrox off board allows Mares to keep the published weight low. Also, with the gas off board, there isn’t a need for any particular size tank. Yes, it makes the donning and doffing a bit more complex, but it’s likely a trade off for other things....
A big part of the marketing materials that we’ve seen stresses the lightweight of the Horizon. Having the nitrox off board allows Mares to keep the published weight low. Also, with the gas off board, there isn’t a need for any particular size tank. Yes, it makes the donning and doffing a bit more complex, but it’s likely a trade off for other things....
Tech Alex
Member
Furious oboe so must be serious....
(Personally I see the twin scrubbers of the r-evo mated to yer another invention of the wheel,,, and nobody with a ccr is going to go backwards are they?)
It looks snazzy and I’m sure some that trust the brand and are keen to “rock some bling” and want to go (slightly) bubbleless will like it and indulge but it’s not my cup of tea
Nad
Member
Back from the Boot.
First of all, the concept is aimed at recreational divers not old fart CCR divers like most of us. So, the terms "revolutionary diving" etc are not for us.
The concept is nice, coming directly from rEvo but with a molded case/frame, a solenoid with a failsafe "open" feature which means that in case of failure it won't stop any gas flow and you will breath a known gas (the one you have in the tank. You can set one or two gases depending on the version you have or the kind of dive, and then you set the "setpoint" as a FO2. During the dive the electronic measure the PO2 through the cells and the solenoid will add what's needed. If choosen wisely Mix and FO2 you won't have a lot of bubbles around.
The goal was to have a unit as lighter as possible, that's why there isn't any tank on board. You just quick connect your off board/bailout tank (something I did often in some particular occasions like Truk, to avoid wasting precious He).
One rechargeable battery, one handset very clear and easy to read, one HUD.
The cost of the unit is around 4000€ for the version at 30m no accellerated deco (this mean you can do deco but not with a second gas), included the first stage with regulator.
For the version to 40m with decompression the cost is around 4600€, included the two first stages with regulators.
Maybe the price is a bit too high but, also if we know previous history, time will tell us more.
I hope it can have the success it deserve because it will bring some new fresh "air" to our beloved activity!
It seems that the prerequisites to access the unit are around 24/25 dives so at least OWD certified.
Nad
First of all, the concept is aimed at recreational divers not old fart CCR divers like most of us. So, the terms "revolutionary diving" etc are not for us.
The concept is nice, coming directly from rEvo but with a molded case/frame, a solenoid with a failsafe "open" feature which means that in case of failure it won't stop any gas flow and you will breath a known gas (the one you have in the tank. You can set one or two gases depending on the version you have or the kind of dive, and then you set the "setpoint" as a FO2. During the dive the electronic measure the PO2 through the cells and the solenoid will add what's needed. If choosen wisely Mix and FO2 you won't have a lot of bubbles around.
The goal was to have a unit as lighter as possible, that's why there isn't any tank on board. You just quick connect your off board/bailout tank (something I did often in some particular occasions like Truk, to avoid wasting precious He).
One rechargeable battery, one handset very clear and easy to read, one HUD.
The cost of the unit is around 4000€ for the version at 30m no accellerated deco (this mean you can do deco but not with a second gas), included the first stage with regulator.
For the version to 40m with decompression the cost is around 4600€, included the two first stages with regulators.
Maybe the price is a bit too high but, also if we know previous history, time will tell us more.
I hope it can have the success it deserve because it will bring some new fresh "air" to our beloved activity!
It seems that the prerequisites to access the unit are around 24/25 dives so at least OWD certified.
Nad
Nad
Member
Probably suit you very well Nad, nice and light weight
After all the fridges?? Yes I deserve it!
silent running
Member
The best way for RB manufacturers to convert recreational divers is explaining to them that CCR will facilitate the best possible wildlife experience. Not SCR, CCR. The vast majority of people get into diving for the wildlife, not because their primary goal is to dive the Andrea Doria. In for a penny, in for a pound. No half stepping, no compromise, the folks that are committed to the activity will gravitate to CCR if they are serious about getting the most out of it. That’s my story. The moment I realized SCR was just as much trouble as CCR, but with much less benefits, I was out of there. There may be very specific tech applications where the simplicity advantages of SCR are significant, but even that is arguable and those applications are few at best. SCR, IMHO, is always barking up the wrong tree. If you are going deep in a cave, I cannot see favoring simplicity over maximum gas extension. But maybe that’s just me.
And PS, I think it’s time to move beyond the P-Port “push button” fastener concept. P-Ports are by no means foolproof, thinking the spring loaded “click” engagement meant I was good to go, almost killed me once. There is no such thing as “simple” in assembling life support equipment. Not in my book...
And PS, I think it’s time to move beyond the P-Port “push button” fastener concept. P-Ports are by no means foolproof, thinking the spring loaded “click” engagement meant I was good to go, almost killed me once. There is no such thing as “simple” in assembling life support equipment. Not in my book...
I do wonder. An SCR version of the Apoc, all just clicking together, drop in an EAC, away you go. That would be so straightforward and simple. Maybe even just the dolphin with EAC?
I enjoyed diving the dolphin, warm gas, OK duration (yes nitrox is a hassle) and not too much to worry about. The new SCRs are way too complicated, and are the hassle or investment of a CCR.
What is the reason behind them, just to be able to use readily available nitrox?
nickb
The JJ Kid
Whilst I agree with most of your post, this statement is quite a claim. Do you have any sources to back this up?
The vast majority of divers I know prefer metal to squidge and CCR is also the best way to dive on wrecks, especially if any penetration is involved. OC exhaust gas rapidly accelerates the deterioration of shipwrecks as well as risking the immediate visibility.
I like to drink my morning tea from this mug...
silent running
Member
Whilst I agree with most of your post, this statement is quite a claim. Do you have any sources to back this up?
The vast majority of divers I know prefer metal to squidge and CCR is also the best way to dive on wrecks, especially if any penetration is involved. OC exhaust gas rapidly accelerates the deterioration of shipwrecks as well as risking the immediate visibility.
I like to drink my morning tea from this mug...
No evidence other than speaking to other divers, beginners and novices. Very few express an interest in cave or wreck diving or go on to become technical divers, in fact very few are still diving after 3 years. That is who I am referring to. I certainly wish there were more people vested in diving generally and with enough follow through to reach advanced levels. I think folks in places with colder water tend to be very motivated, but my guess is that there are far fewer of you than there are the recreational tourist types who get basic certified. The after dive conversation on every recreational dive boat I’ve ever been on is “what fish did you see?”
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silent running
Member
I learned RBs on an Atlantis/Dolphin and have dived a MCCR converted Dolphin. They are very sensibly designed, having a soft inside cover with the lungs right next to your back is something I’d like to see done in another BMCL CCR.
But man, P-Ports, what crap. Having the possibility that your whole loop could come apart because of a small corroded spring you can’t inspect without taking it apart is sheer stupidity. I wonder how many times Drager has been sued...
nickb
The JJ Kid
I guess that the cohort with whom I mix are self-selected and I tend to avoid 'scenic' diving like the plague.
However, my original desire to start diving was to do so in caves. My first wife was vehemently against that, so I opted for wrecks instead. I'm still diving them 30 years after she and I divorced
Dave, SCR Apoc could be an option. No ones ever asked for one though for recreational use!
Same functionality as this Mares unit, but flood recoverable with onboard rail mounted cylinders and better WOB in CC and OC modes. Would probably be more expensive though.
Doesn’t need to be a soft cover; just have the CLs close to your back. Which works if you don’t run a seperate backplate and have the frame integral to the unit. The position and shape of the CLs will be interesting to see on this Mares design.
Depends on if Mares copied the Drager or Deeplife design! And how considered their FMECA was….
The bore looks comparable to the DL improved design but I can only see one button?
More on DL redesign of the P-Port at pg 24-26 http://www.deeplife.co.uk/or_files/FMECA_OR_V4_140831.pdf