Scooter 101

oya

oya

Member
Is there anything out there considered a good starter read on scooters?

I have never paid much attention to them other than to know the brand names and that they are out there. I've been actively avoiding ever so much as touching one because I have known the moment I did it would be instant obsession.

But I figure now's about the time to start doing the research and sometime over the next year or so, pull the trigger (so to speak).

As of today, though, I don't know what the pros and cons across the field are. I don't even know what questions to ask ABOUT the different scooters are.

Where to start?
 
Oya, There are some great choices out there but no one source to rate them like a consumer reports. First you might ask what your primary use is i.e long duration cave penetrations or occisional open ocean wreck dives and the all important question of your allowable budget.good deals can be had on lightly used or specials on new products. Silent submerge are a nicechoice as well as the new bonex line offered by Subgravity diving.The Thorntons will be happy to give you imput on those models and i am sure folks here will jump in soon to give some ideas Good luck ,i never had a dpv i did not like!
 
Questions I would ask myself:

Will I EVER want to put it on a plane? Determines your battery chemistry
What run time and speed will I use (not like!!!!). Determines battery capacity and unit size
Will I service the unit myself or is there a good service center nearbye?
What model do my friends use so that we can share knowledge/spares/chargers etc
What gimmicky features do I like - lights, power connections, camera mounts, infinitely variable speed control etc.

Note top speeds can be impressive but ask yourself if it's really required as it dramatically affects battery and overall unit size and run times
 
Not sure what you have considered, but the DiveX Piranah is a very cool concept. You can have one two or three batteries and they are additive (i.e. You can dive it with one battery or attach a second if you want or even a third). On a one battery configuration you can still expect 5+km at cruise speed which is still faster than my mates Suex flat out and it only weighs about 11kgs. You can also buy a non-lithium battery which fits the scooter so you can travel with it. They can also organize a very nice solid travel case and have every mount option for cameras you can think of. I have had one for 18 months and it has been very reliable, robust and easy to live. Have had to tow a few mates back whose scooters have failed for one reason or another and it handled it with ease.

Cheers
Larry


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
Larry7895 said:
Not sure what you have considered, but the DiveX Piranah is a very cool concept. You can have one two or three batteries and they are additive (i.e. You can dive it with one battery or attach a second if you want or even a third). On a one battery configuration you can still expect 5+km at cruise speed which is still faster than my mates Suex flat out and it only weighs about 11kgs. You can also buy a non-lithium battery which fits the scooter so you can travel with it. They can also organize a very nice solid travel case and have every mount option for cameras you can think of. I have had one for 18 months and it has been very reliable, robust and easy to live. Have had to tow a few mates back whose scooters have failed for one reason or another and it handled it with ease.

Cheers
Larry


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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The Piranahs are certainly a great concept. Another benefit of their release is that they have crushed the resale value of superseded models. Cuda 400s and Sierras now represent excellent value if you are happy to buy used.

I've been very happy with my Cuda 400.
 
As one who has owned and dove many a different scooter, (and modified and rebuilt a Soviet military DPV), I would test as many as you can get your hands on. I assume this is Rodger we are talking to. Go test the Suex scooters at Dutch Springs, there are always ones there to try out. Next time in cave country, give the Bonex a go, you can borrow one from Wayne at Amigo's. If over in Marianna, Edd will let you try out the Submerge and Bonex as well. I was very happy with my Viper which I owned for several years, it's sort of the Chevy Impala of scooters. Good all around and the best bang for your buck buying one new. I recently upgraded to the Minnus 2.0 (or Valkyrie), with 40 Amp hour battery. The Viper can have the LiFe 20 Amp hour or the LiPo 30 Amp hour battery, I had the smaller one, at much less cost. The Suex are fast and extremely well engineered, but the XK-1 is a bit big for boat diving in my opinion. The Bonex are also well engineered, but some say the carbon fiber, while pretty to begin with, won't weather well with the bumps and scrapes that will happen in the course of it's life. There are several thru hull connections. Dive-X are also reliable, I know several friends who have the Cuda and mini-Cuda, I just don't care for the AL hull, which the Suex also has. If you are planning on using the scooter in the caves, which I believe you are, don't worry about flying with the unit. That has never impacted my decision on which battery to purchase. When you travel, the first thing you will omit is the scooter, too big, too heavy and way too much trouble to deal with. Liabilities outweigh the benefits. Scooters can be rented in most places you would want to use one. Get a scooter that can be serviced in country, while I am capable to repair them myself, many don't wish the headache, and the last thing you want is to ship overseas. Good luck, and if you want to try out my Submerge, you know how to reach me and the mine is always open!
 
Dan Wright said:
When you travel, the first thing you will omit is the scooter, too big, too heavy and way too much trouble to deal with. Liabilities outweigh the benefits. /QUOTE]

Only if you buy the wrong scooter for your needs...lol

My scooter goes with me on pretty much every trip and especially on the big ones or those that I'm unlikely to return to. It adds so much to the dives that I am now reluctant to ever leave it at home.

I routinely get comments of "why did you bring it?" or "how much does it weigh?" for the first dive or two. Then the comments are "was there anything worth seeing over there?" or "did you find the engine room?"

In reality the inconvenience works out to one extra bag so it's easily managed on top of all the 'breather and other dive paraphernalia that comes along.

I do agree that the larger Pb or NiMH scooters are large enough to be a PITA to handle anywhere and are certainly not travel friendly but they have been largely replaced by better designs and chemistries
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True! With the Valkyrie, there are already tow speed controls, dial on the top, and the handle, throttle. Little need for the variable pitch propellor now. All scooters have strong and weak points....
 
Goferrin said:
Dan Wright said:
When you travel, the first thing you will omit is the scooter, too big, too heavy and way too much trouble to deal with. Liabilities outweigh the benefits. /QUOTE]

Only if you buy the wrong scooter for your needs...lol

My scooter goes with me on pretty much every trip and especially on the big ones or those that I'm unlikely to return to. It adds so much to the dives that I am now reluctant to ever leave it at home.


I routinely get comments of "why did you bring it?" or "how much does it weigh?" for the first dive or two. Then the comments are "was there anything worth seeing over there?" or "did you find the engine room?"

In reality the inconvenience works out to one extra bag so it's easily managed on top of all the 'breather and other dive paraphernalia that comes along.

I do agree that the larger Pb or NiMH scooters are large enough to be a PITA to handle anywhere and are certainly not travel friendly but they have been largely replaced by better designs and chemistries
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With all I carry already, especially the housed DSLR, with strobes and video lights, and all the other support equipment, I personally have to prioritize, the scooter is great, but that extra case (never a bag) would push the extra baggage charges into the stratosphere. Obviously, if you are diving such locations as Jutland, bring your scooter at all costs.
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Dan Wright said:
Goferrin said:
With all I carry already, especially the housed DSLR, with strobes and video lights, and all the other support equipment, I personally have to prioritize, the scooter is great, but that extra case (never a bag) would push the extra baggage charges into the stratosphere. Obviously, if you are diving such locations as Jutland, bring your scooter at all costs.
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It's always a shame when you have to control your addictions...lol

It's difficult with US airlines that have step changes in per bag prices. I agree $200 for the extra bag needs some justification. With Asian airlines with a fixed $2 per kilo pricing it's normally a no brainier.
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oya said:
Is there anything out there considered a good starter read on scooters?
...

As of today, though, I don't know what the pros and cons across the field are. I don't even know what questions to ask ABOUT the different scooters are.
Click to expand...

Here's a few pages on comparing scooter performance and design. Hope it helps. While it mentions using less breathing gas, the same applies to CCR, in that you generate less CO2 than swimming, especially with a lot of bailout, so your scrubber duration should be a bit longer. I'm not sure whether the additional water flow over the scrubber would add any additional cooling, affecting the efficiency. Probably varies by unit and if so, probably minimal.

View attachment DPV Comparison Demystified.pdf

Cheers,
Jon Nellis
Logic Dive Gear
 
Brad_Horn said:
Due to towed divers oxygen consumption being in the order of 0.37-0.5LPM. http://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1501&context=etd
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Yes, less O2 consumption is the corollary to less CO2 generation, but I've never heard of anyone planing to carrying less O2 than they had scrubber for.

Other rebreather specific DPV issues:

1. The large hoses cause a lot of drag on the mouth piece and the hoses can tend to flutter at high speed.

2. It's really easy to change depth quickly and without noticing, which can spike your PO2 on descents and cause miscellaneous other grief. The easiest way to prevent this is a computer or bottom timer in your line of sight on the scooter or the Shearwater NERD. We are releasing the Sentry DPV Dashboard in a couple weeks that is perfect for maintaining depth without having to look at your wrist every 15 seconds, as well as controlling power consumption on long dives, so you don't run out of battery to soon by going too fast.
 
anyone ever make their own scooter "Gauge console"?

I have a Dive XTra Sierra (great starter unit) and I feel that buying a mount seems a little ridiculous when I could cut something out of a sheet of aluminum/steel I could get on McMaster Carr...

any help or pics would be appreciated.
 
I just built a tray for the Piranna go-pro mount so I can take my sola 1200 light with the go-pro clone. I need something because so far the videos have been 'dark with a splash of light' on whatever my 18W HID touches. The white beam of light is cool, but not the best if you really want to see.

The sola may not help much on the travel video, but close-ups once at the destination should improve a lot.

So I built the tray using spare go-pro mounts and some aluminum stock. The big test is Friday. :-)

As for things to watch, proper position is quite critical with shoulder/front counterlungs. My first scooter dive on my Prism was a couple of years ago on a borrowed cuda 650. I didn't set the tow cord length properly and was like a flag waving in the breeze. I also lost 2000psi of dil in 400 ft scootering through the counterlung OPV.

Fast forward to now and I have my own piranna 1 and love it. I tuned up my tow cord length and positioning on open circuit over a couple of dives, then took the P1 out with the Prism. No counterlung venting at all except a tiny bit when on the fastest speed, and that was stopped easily with a bit of breathing control.

My first scooter was a short-body gavin followed by a dive-x echo (the first type they made). All tons of fun. All on OC back then for me.
 
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