Water ingress & recovery in KISS Classics

Capt Morgan said:
The way I see it is the dump valve at the bottom would have to be set to open
at a lower pressure than the top one, or it would just stay closed and the gas
would escape from the top one leaving the water in the base.
Then if it's set to open at low pressure you loose gas when inverted, i.e. taking
spidge out of a hole.
Another way would be with a pull dump fitted to the base with a strong spring
to keep it closed (like on a lift bag) but then you have the routing of the toggle
to deal with to prevent it getting opened by accident.
It's a bit of a head scratcher ;)
Click to expand...


I could reach the OPV on my KISS and close it down which I had hoped would allow me to overpresure the lungs and blow water out of the lower valve? As i say I never got round to building it so I never got to test the theory.

Maybe on my new unit? But not this year

ATB
 
Goferrin said:
Dave, which BOV do you have it fitted to?

Does it fit on the DiveRite (same size mouthpiece as a Apeks reg)?

I understand the mouthpiece cannot be changed to a different size as its integral to the gag plate, correct?

I just got back from a decent scooter run in strong current with minimal water in the base plate. No loose lips from consciously having to clamp down on the mouthpiece and lip seal made all the difference. I'm keen to attack both fronts - minimise ingress AND be able to remove what ever is there between dives
Click to expand...

I've got it on the shrimp and on the Hollis BOV. I know the shrimp used an Apeks mouthpiece when I got it. I'm trying to remember, but I thought the mouthpiece spigot on that Diverite BOV was pretty big.

BTW should be getting a S/Steel case this week, so will finally get to try it out with the cooper hoses in the next couple of weeks.


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Dave1w said:
I've got it on the shrimp and on the Hollis BOV. I know the shrimp used an Apeks mouthpiece when I got it. I'm trying to remember, but I thought the mouthpiece spigot on that Diverite BOV was pretty big.

BTW should be getting a S/Steel case this week, so will finally get to try it out with the cooper hoses in the next couple of weeks.


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Click to expand...


The Coopers are fantastic, big smooth bore :)
 
Dave1w said:
I've got it on the shrimp and on the Hollis BOV. I know the shrimp used an Apeks mouthpiece when I got it. I'm trying to remember, but I thought the mouthpiece spigot on that Diverite BOV was pretty big.

BTW should be getting a S/Steel case this week, so will finally get to try it out with the cooper hoses in the next couple of weeks.


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Click to expand...

Dave,

I borrowed one of Marc's and yes it does fit and problem solved - not a drop of water anywhere after 2 hrs on the scooter. Much less jaw fatigue as well. Will order one when I get home and cancel the drain idea.
 
If you get enough water at the bottom of the cannister for it to be a problem you have a leak- end of story.

Stop trying to change it before it is first fixed.

Yes- if you get a flood the CK is appalling at dealing with it but the flood will either be a something you can't fix or so bad you can't clear so bailout. With the exception of replacing the triple PPO2 displays nothing anyone has ever done to the CK has made it better, it is what it is and does what it does- live with it (which isn't hard because its great) or get another unit IMO.
 
Ben Field said:
With the exception of replacing the triple PPO2 displays nothing anyone has ever done to the CK has made it better, it is what it is and does what it does- live with it (which isn't hard because its great) or get another unit IMO.
Click to expand...

Ben, keep sipping the Coolaid... Cooper Hoses, GG BOVs, Tri-gas blocks, replacing the idiotic plastic O2 MAV, ADVs. The list goes on of significant improvements people have made over the original model.

I agree that the Classic is a good base unit but it's hardly perfect straight out of the box..
 
I have a sponge in the bottom, which does a pretty good job of absorbing most of the moisture. After a dive I can pop the bottom off and dry the sponge.
 
Thanks Kensuf. I was very surprised at how much difference the gag strap made. I've gone from it being enough of a concern to start this thread to having no water at all in the lungs or trap. I agree that removing a small amount between dives is relatively easy

Flushing mid Dve seems fraught with issues and I let others prove the effectiveness before I follow

Cheers
 
Goferrin said:
Ben, keep sipping the Coolaid... Cooper Hoses, GG BOVs, Tri-gas blocks, replacing the idiotic plastic O2 MAV, ADVs. The list goes on of significant improvements people have made over the original model.

I agree that the Classic is a good base unit but it's hardly perfect straight out of the box..
Click to expand...

No offence but your line- "replacing the idiotic plastic O2 MAV" shows you to be a little green, the plastic MAV was a late change and not the original all stainless design which blows anything since out of the water IMO.

Cooper Hoses are not submarine rated and unnecessary & overpriced.
GG BOV? Please, just a toy, the SNOG valve was where it was at, sadly never met full production.
Gas blocks- just not K.I.S.S.
The ADV- my biggest bugbear ever. I used 3 CK's over the years, serial numbers below 10, mid 100's and a recent one all with original stock ADV, frankly if you can't make the stock ADV work I am worried you shouldn't be diving CCR, it just works- its supposed to be hard (because that tells you something) and if you don't fiddle with it works for years without attention (in my experience) People spent decades trying to make it something it isn't, that it is not like other ADV's is part of the design- live with it.


The Classic KISS is a Good unit (full stop)

It is NOT a good base to modify from because (other than the aforementioned PPO2 displays) nothing is particularly suitable to modification, you cannot easily overcome the core shortcomings/design feature (the Head as a T-piece) therefore you cannot greatly vary the WOB, so fart-arsing around with hose ID, BOV and scrubber makes a very small % difference (in comparison to switching to a.n.other unit) on the WOB, just dive Helium and except the shortcoming and keep it K.I.S.S.

"IF" you want to improve a CK you do the following-
Swap out the Ali CL case block for SS thus removing 90% of the corrosion issues
Fit a hardwired Shearwater
Spend the rest of your money diving.
 
Some folks like to tinker, personally i prefer to drink red wine while others tinker......

Mod's I have kept on the classic;

1. Change from 1st to 2nd gen steel MAV>
2. Upgrade original adv to the next version.
3. Change counterlung case to all stainless (stiffer, less corrosion and slightly longer so it sits better on my back and when sat down)
4. Installed a rolled sports towel into the base to grab slobber.

I like the idea of the syringe, or even just some tubing to suck it out.....but in reality the rolled sports towel does the job.
 
ebt said:
Some folks like to tinker, personally i prefer to drink red wine while others tinker......

Mod's I have kept on the classic;

1. Change from 1st to 2nd gen steel MAV>
2. Upgrade original adv to the next version.
3. Change counterlung case to all stainless (stiffer, less corrosion and slightly longer so it sits better on my back and when sat down)
4. Installed a rolled sports towel into the base to grab slobber.

I like the idea of the syringe, or even just some tubing to suck it out.....but in reality the rolled sports towel does the job.
Click to expand...

Cough, you'll only suck it out once....don't ask me how I know


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KISS Mods?

Personaly I'd say KISS with Shearwater Display, HUD, SS back box, a stand and any BOV that works

I put a Sheerwater HUD and display on my KISS 11 years ago when it was a home build thing but now KISS sell thease as an option which is a great idea

I had a John Falcone ADV and Cooper hoses as well, but they were nice but not esential

chasey-1.jpg


KISSrig_1.jpg
 
Ben Field said:
The Classic KISS is a Good unit (full stop)
It is NOT a good base to modify from
keep it K.I.S.S.
Spend the rest of your money diving.
Click to expand...
I second these comments.
Like others, especially in the early '00, I've tried lots of things on my CK#69, including silly things such as adding a HH e-ccr kit. Each time I reverted to the original version.
Some good stuff we've tried, or Kiss own versions of it, were introduced over the years into the Kiss specs as original or options.
That shows good things about the company: keep the K.I.S.S. paradigm, listen to the users and introduce only the proven add-ons. Develop others units for other users.
I've done countless dives with new buddies diving other units that are supposed to be better units, with lots of gizmos, a handfull of cells, latest canbus technology.... I'm used to hear their first comments after the dive: "that's a good rig that you have here. So simple and yet it does everything a ccr must do."
 
One mod that a lot of people (myself included) do is remove the triple display and
replace it with a Shearwater or the like.
In my opinion this goes against the whole KISS ethos, you have just gone from a
dedicated cable, power supply and display for each cell to putting all your eggs in
one basket.
True redundancy to no redundancy.
I dive with a Shearwater in this way but still think it's a step backwards in safety
for an improvement in user friendliness.
 
Capt Morgan said:
One mod that a lot of people (myself included) do is remove the triple display and
replace it with a Shearwater or the like.
In my opinion this goes against the whole KISS ethos, you have just gone from a
dedicated cable, power supply and display for each cell to putting all your eggs in
one basket.
True redundancy to no redundancy.
I dive with a Shearwater in this way but still think it's a step backwards in safety
for an improvement in user friendliness.
Click to expand...


Yes but if you have a Shearwater HUD as well then you have full redundancy (except the shared cells of course)

I had the KISS display and it worked fine but as you say the Shearwater as an interface is so much easier to work with

ATB
 
Capt Morgan said:
One mod that a lot of people (myself included) do is remove the triple display and
replace it with a Shearwater or the like.
In my opinion this goes against the whole KISS ethos, you have just gone from a
dedicated cable, power supply and display for each cell to putting all your eggs in
one basket.
True redundancy to no redundancy.
I dive with a Shearwater in this way but still think it's a step backwards in safety
for an improvement in user friendliness.
Click to expand...

That would be a totally valid point if the reliability of a single Shearwater wasn't many many orders of magnitudes greater than a whole shipping container of KISS PPO2 displays.

As an engineer and diver I could not get the Triple displays off my unit fast enough, I even felt guilty including them with the unit when I sold it, compared to the robust Shearwater I hard wired in as a replacement I consider the individual displays as playing Russian Roulette with a Revolver loaded in 5 of the 6 barrels!
 
Dave1w said:
Cough, you'll only suck it out once....don't ask me how I know


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Click to expand...

Clearly you led a very virtuous childhood that never involved siphoning petrol to erm... "encourage" a bonfire ;) One of the best lessons in my early life was delivered by lighting the bonfire and hearing the *phwoomph* ...behind me....
 
ebt said:
Clearly you led a very virtuous childhood that never involved siphoning petrol to erm... "encourage" a bonfire ;) One of the best lessons in my early life was delivered by lighting the bonfire and hearing the *phwoomph* ...behind me....
Click to expand...

I think petrol is probably tastier than cleaning out my exhale counterlung with a straw :moon:
 
Capt Morgan said:
One mod that a lot of people (myself included) do is remove the triple display and
replace it with a Shearwater or the like.
In my opinion this goes against the whole KISS ethos, you have just gone from a
dedicated cable, power supply and display for each cell to putting all your eggs in
one basket.
True redundancy to no redundancy.
I dive with a Shearwater in this way but still think it's a step backwards in safety
for an improvement in user friendliness.
Click to expand...
Totally agree. I added a SW and then took it off a couple of months later. The triple display needs a lot of faults to leave you without anything useful. You could lose the SW monitoring with a single point of failure. So then you have to add a secondary display with all the problems of piggybacking cells and all the inherent single failure points of that unit.

How much have you then spent to get to a place that is arguably still weaker than your starting point? Seems stupid to me.

I dicked about with my unit over the four years I owned it. It ended up back to the state I got it in. If I'd left it as is I'd probably still be diving it.

2nd gen mav, 1st gen triple display, steel hoses, maybe put a decent bov on. If you want a complex, answer for everything unit then dont buy a KISS. It works because it is simple. Strangely, it would appear Gordon actually thought it through rather than just sticking a bunch of bits together.

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