Cave Bailout

oya

oya

Member
When's the last time folks have practiced full bailout? And I mean FULL.

I'll be in Cave Country in a few weeks and am toying with the idea of blowing an entire dive (well, for a variable value of "blowing") on going back to, say, Double Domes and then bailing all the way to the surface. A few bottle switches. Loop getting in the way the whole way. Probably going to breathe a bit heavy for good measure.

The truth is, I don't really know my SAC anymore. And I'd kinda like to! I'm very much of the school of not learning little eccentricities when the excrement hits the whirlygig so I figured it was something I could have a little bit of fun with (well, for a variable value of "fun") learning what's going to hit me in the face when and why, or whether the HUD keeps trying to pull off my regulator exhaust T or something.

Wondering how many folks do this and, if so, how often?

Also, I will be bringing a little sign that says, "Drilling. No Emergency." to flash at concerned passing divers. So if you see that sign and me cursing to myself through one of those bubbly things in a few weeks feel free to point and laugh and offer up constructive criticism here on the forum later.
 
I really doubt that anyone does this. I am not saying it is a bad idea, in fact it is a great idea and should be done occasionally. i have not done a complete bailout since class, but i have done some bailouts to my bailout rebreather during the testing phase of it. Obviously my SAC rate was of no concern to me.
 
It's a great idea. One suggestion maybe bring two bottles and bailout heading into the current for 500' or so. Do your calcs that way and bailout with the other stage from say the double domes. You should easily be able to make it out of double domes with a single 80s unless your RMV is really high.
 
Great idea! Just make sure you have a buddy with you with some extra gas just incase you surprise yourself about how bad your SAC rate has become! :)
 
Randy Thornton said:
Just make sure you have a buddy with you with some extra gas just incase you surprise yourself about how bad your SAC rate has become! :)
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On the odd occasions I'm on OC (mostly at work) my SAC is noticeably way crappier than it was when I still had to watch pressure gauges, but I thought it might be useful to artificially exaggerate it further... get a baseline of a "worst-case" rate (good idea Anthony).

In the meantime I will definitely be dragging my wife along for this little endeavor. I figure she, at least, deserves the entertainment.

Might even try sharing air at some point because if things are already going to be bad... Why not make it worse?!
 
The signs a great idea.... i just did this drill at Eagles Nest Feb 2nd. Had extra gas incase.... nicer to drill there than the cold water where i live:)
 
A few times a year ill do a single tank OC dive and I dont make any effort to do well and i check my SAC for the dive using my Suunto Vytec with runtime start and finsih presures. This gives a very accurate figure. You lose a little as the tank cools once in the water but thats just added safety margin in my book

My SAC is still sub 15 acording to my 2 dives three days ago so I plan on 25.

SOme will argue about massive co2 induced SACs but as I always say, you cant plan for shark attack

Carry enough OC gas to deel with 50SACs and its as likley to induce as task loaded hit as it is to help when you get one.

25 SAC thirds (gas to exit from furthest point in cave + 30%) + a buddy + SCCR option + pure 02 CCR option

That will do me

That said if all I have to do to be mega safe is carry two 80s? then ill carry them as thats no hassel. Ill only carry three if I have to and ill stage one if possable and ill do set up dives if I need more than 3

ATB
 
I haven't done a full bailout exit like you describe, but I dive both OC and RB fairly often. Imo keeping sharp with both OC and RB is smart.
 
Mark Chase said:
A few times a year ill do a single tank OC dive and I dont make any effort to do well and i check my SAC
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I suddenly feel very, very stupid that it never occurred to me before that on my occasional dives at work I can dedicate a bit of time remeasuring SAC. They're working dives, too, so should be alright for elevated breathing rates.

Mark Chase said:
25 SAC thirds (gas to exit from furthest point in cave + 30%) + a buddy + SCCR option + pure 02 CCR option
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I think I'm more curious about the behaviour of THINGS as I make a bailout exit. What will my AL80s start to do when they're nearly empty now that I've changed the way I wear them? How will the loop hoses or lungs twist or tug or torque when I'm getting blasted through the Keyhole? What will hit me in the face more, the DSV or my wife's fins when we're sharing air? Those sorts of things; just to learn what my kit will do if all hell should break loose.

And, honestly, I am super curious about how many people WILL respond to a CCR diver exiting on OC. Because I'm a cynical bastard who enjoys being proven right about the lack of common courtesy and situational awareness among humanity. (Actually, I like being proven wrong more.)
 
oya said:
And, honestly, I am super curious about how many people WILL respond to a CCR diver exiting on OC. Because I'm a cynical bastard who enjoys being proven right about the lack of common courtesy and situational awareness among humanity. (Actually, I like being proven wrong more.)
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I am curious to hear about this as well. My suspicion is that with the exception of your immediate team members, most cave divers will not pay you much attention unless you are signaling them that you are having problems. In Ginnie Springs for example, you see so many classes going on as well as knucklehead divers who are doing all sorts of crazy things, that I think most people would expect to see an emergency signal before responding. Otherwise, they would spend their entire dives trying to figure out what is going on with all of the crazies that you see in there! :)
 
when I've seen CCR divers exiting on OC, I always signal OK at them to make sure all is well. Never get excited, but then again I always either signal ok or make eye contact and wave at them if I know them, so it isn't really anything out of the norm. I try not to "respond" to anything I see in a cave because you never know who is in a class or doing drills, hence the asking or at least acknowledging their presence. If they need help I assume I'll get flashed.
 
I would think if there was an emergency and two divers were exiting with one bailed to OC and they came upon another team there would (or should) be an interaction asking for help. This would mean the OOA divers would flag down others and ASK for help. It would be stupid to pass someone by if there was a true emergency. I would want help from anyone who could provide help.
 
Randy Thornton said:
I am curious to hear about this as well. My suspicion is that with the exception of your immediate team members, most cave divers will not pay you much attention unless you are signaling them that you are having problems. In Ginnie Springs for example, you see so many classes going on as well as knucklehead divers who are doing all sorts of crazy things, that I think most people would expect to see an emergency signal before responding. Otherwise, they would spend their entire dives trying to figure out what is going on with all of the crazies that you see in there! :)
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I bailed on to OC with a flooded KISS and double thumbed a dive. One of the teem of three totaly ignored me and demanded a safety stop dispite haveing been on about 60% Nitrox FOR THE LAST 45MINS IN 14M OF WATER

I lost it and told him to fec off and exited the cave alone with a cuastic coctail burning the f out of my mouth

When I asked wtf he was playing at ignoring a double thumbed dive he said he hadn't even noticed id bailed out???????????

And he was / is a top level instructor

So IMHO dont even expect anyone to notice

ATB
 
Mark Chase said:
I bailed on to OC with a flooded KISS and double thumbed a dive. One of the teem of three totaly ignored me and demanded a safety stop dispite haveing been on about 60% Nitrox FOR THE LAST 45MINS IN 14M OF WATER

I lost it and told him to fec off and exited the cave alone with a cuastic coctail burning the f out of my mouth

When I asked wtf he was playing at ignoring a double thumbed dive he said he hadn't even noticed id bailed out???????????

And he was / is a top level instructor

So IMHO dont even expect anyone to notice

ATB
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You've had some great buddies !
 
I think about the SAC rate issue when I dive open circuit, mostly recreational stuff on travel. I'm sure a lot of us fall into the category where we started technical diving open circuit and calculated our deco gas consumption back when we had really good air consumption. After diving a rebreather for years I've noticed on the very rare occasions that I do dive open circuit my air consumption is like that of an open water I student. Might be a good idea to re-baseline every once and a while.
 
If it looks like an emergency - and a CCR diver with bubbles certainly looks like an emergency - it's treated as one until proven otherwise. The effects of pissing someone off by checking that it's a drill are way less than the effects of ignoring someone who is having a real emergency,

Thanks,
Robert
 
I do this drill with all of my CCR Cave students. I think it is a great idea regardless of how much OC diving you do. Managing the loop volume, drag, remembering to change computer settings etc are all small things that add up and warrant a practice from time to time.

My favorite place to do it is from the park bench out at Ginnie. The depth change going up through the key hole is always a little challenge for the student and then managing the bedding plain of the lips is also good for showing the to control the loop from entangling etc.


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Wouldn't this take the excitement out of a real bailout scenario? Just as long as you don't get so good at bailout to confuse what is an actual emergency from an every day dive...


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Garth said:
Wouldn't this take the excitement out of a real bailout scenario?
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You make a valid point. If the heart gets really pumping and there isn't a bunch of barely controlled chaos then it barely qualifies as an emergency at all! And that's no fun.
 
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