Thinking about CCR

Jericho

New Member
Hi,

I've been a lurker here for a while but thought it might be time to join in and seek some advice.

I've just started considering swapping over to a rebreather, but have no idea what things I need to consider. I'm currently deciphering the difference between MAV, BOV & ADV and trying to decide what is an essential & what is a luxury, so any suggestions gratefully received.

The 2 rebreather divers I know both (predictably) sell their chosen unit very well, while pointing out all the faults in every other one available, so I'm presuming there is no such thing as a perfect unit.

Any suggestions on where to start?

Cheers

J
 
Which one looks more sexy? There you go! More seriously learn as much as poss from places like this try to narrow your choices and then get a good look and a try a dive. Depending where you are in the uk there's a number of instructors that do TAD on inspo/JJ/Poseidon. Also if you'll dive with your mates who are already on RB's it makes some sense to use the same , a ready pool of spares and knowledge.

Let the head ache begin.....
 
Thanks for the reply.

Try dives are on the to-do list, I've found a place that you can pick 3 from what they have available and have a go on. I just need to work out which three to try...

One dives a revo, which I liked until the other one started muttering about loop floods and recovery. He uses an inspo classic, which seemed OK until he started going over all the mods he'd made to get it how he liked it. I suffer from chimp fingers, so modding stuff isn't my strong point.

Headache well and truly begun, I suspect it may last some time.
 
I went through it last year. Inspo or JJ. At the time exchange rate made the inspo much better value, decision made. I looked at classics for a while but they are getting on now. The vision is the way forward, you can still mod it but out of the box it's ready to dive. Also a U.K. Company so spares/repairs are easy.
Really enjoying getting into the RB way of diving , doubt you'll look back which ever way you go.
 
Hey Jericho,

Hi from another newbie who recently crossed the line to CCR. Get ready for the ride of your life. I just got my Mod1 in December and my Hammerhead about one month ago. Find the instructor first, then sort out the machine with that person. You will be in learning-mode intensively for a considerable period of time and it takes patience and lots of practice, as I am finding out. You will be frequenting your teacher's proverbial doorstep more than you might imagine, so it's best to evaluate the teacher/student relationship as carefully, if not more so than the machine itself IMVHO.

Also, check into the prospective company's history regarding customer support and spares, as in "how far do you have to ship it if it breaks" kind of thing. Really important...

Best wishes on your crossover to the Dark Side as many here have said to me! Once you get the gist of whatever machine you look into or try, you're going to get hooked, like, quick :-)

Enjoy!
 
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Since you're in the UK look at JJ, rEvo and Inspiration (in that order) and pick, don't buy a Yankee-doodle machine, shop local.

Irrespective anyway as those are the best 3 on the market right now anyway.
 
Got a good chuckle out of this one. Thanks, mate! I'm smiling...

Since you're in the UK look at JJ, rEvo and Inspiration (in that order) and pick, don't buy a Yankee-doodle machine, shop local.

Irrespective anyway as those are the best 3 on the market right now anyway.
 
Thanks for the public & private replies, got some stuff to think about there.

One last question (for now), short of a lot of google-fu is there anywhere that explains what the various TLA's that keep getting used are and more importantly what benefits and/or drawbacks are?
 
Each manufacture basically has their own version of these and some are available aftermarket from secondary manufacturers.

DSV = dive surface valve
the mouthpiece of a CCR that you breath on, has a switch to close it so if the loop doesn't flood with water if your remove it from your mouth

BOV = bailout valve
incorporates an open circuit regulator into the dsv, switches from rebreather loop to open circuit with a knob without taking the mouthpiece out of your mouth

ADV = automatic diluent valve
automatically adds diluent to the loop as it gets crushed by increasing depth

MAV = manual add valve
a button to either add o2 or diluent to the loop manually. commonly the dil MAV is on one side of your body and the O2 MAV on the other so its harder to get them mixed up.
 
Again, I am a 1-12 CCR hour novice, so these impressions are from a no-nothing beginner as they related to my Mod1 learning experiences -ONLY- so don't take them too seriously...

Each manufacture basically has their own version of these and some are available aftermarket from secondary manufacturers.

DSV = dive surface valve
the mouthpiece of a CCR that you breath on, has a switch to close it so if the loop doesn't flood with water if your remove it from your mouth

With a DSV, you close the loop completely and have to physically unclip your bailout reg from your right shoulder strap and swap it to your mouth *over* your DSV and put it in your mouth. If you can't breathe momentarily while task loaded, it's not the quickest solution to get to your next breath. Valuable skill to learn? Yes. Of course. Not the most efficacious way to do it, however.

BOV = bailout valve
incorporates an open circuit regulator into the dsv, switches from rebreather loop to open circuit with a knob without taking the mouthpiece out of your mouth

Yes! My yankee-doodle :-) Hammerhead Extreme came with a BOV. The HH rig I trained on in Mod1 had a DSV. Much better way to go, but comes with its own potential issues, particularly if you are using 2 litre cylinders. Not much breathing gas (dil) available and lessens considerably with depth. So, turn the knob, breathe dil for one nice deep breath *while* unclipping your bailout reg and getting on it asap. It minimizes the risk of flooding your loop and adds a component of relaxation to the bailout switch that is not present when switching from a DSV. But, if your rig doesn't come with a BOV, then it's an expensive upgrade to a Golem Shrimp BOV.

ADV = automatic diluent valve
automatically adds diluent to the loop as it gets crushed by increasing depth

As a novice, I did not like this on the HH. The way it was set up on the HH, an out of trim angle of attack (pitch) would sometimes activate it in the most unwanted situations. Roll axis would also fire it off sometimes too. I discussed this with my instructor when configuring the order for my unit and elected not to get it. I had asked about putting an inline shutoff between the manifold and the ADV, so I could easily disable it and fly the dil manually to start out, slowing learning to work with the ADV as I became more stable with my trim (pitch and roll). Ultimately, I just went with MAV's for both dil and O2. I think I remember reading that Randy from HH uses MAV and thinking what's good for the goose is good for the gander. But Everyone here will have an opinion and preference regarding this one... all of them valid...

MAV = manual add valve
a button to either add o2 or diluent to the loop manually. commonly the dil MAV is on one side of your body and the O2 MAV on the other so its harder to get them mixed up.

Dil MAV/SPG on the left O2 MAV/SPG on the right. I have found that making a loop with 4mm bungee for each MAV/SPG combo and then using a double-ended bolt snap to tie them together across the sternum once the rig has been donned keeps the management/manipulation "cluster-f&^%" to a pleasing minimum. In my lack of experience and motor skills, I would hit the LPI by accident, thinking I was adding dil to the loop. Guess what happens when we make that mistake??? In the current config with the loops and boltsnap, my right hand easily falls to either MAV and makes keeping an eye on the SPG's MUCH easier.

To quote a Sage: Just my 2¢... Hope it helps.
 
I encourage you to have a read of the following from the downloads section of my web-site WWW.HAYNESMARINE.COM:

http://www.haynesmarine.co.uk/images/stories/A Survival Guide To Rebreather Diving Nov 2011.pdf

Rgds

Paul

Hi,

I've been a lurker here for a while but thought it might be time to join in and seek some advice.

I've just started considering swapping over to a rebreather, but have no idea what things I need to consider. I'm currently deciphering the difference between MAV, BOV & ADV and trying to decide what is an essential & what is a luxury, so any suggestions gratefully received.

The 2 rebreather divers I know both (predictably) sell their chosen unit very well, while pointing out all the faults in every other one available, so I'm presuming there is no such thing as a perfect unit.

Any suggestions on where to start?

Cheers

J
 
From someone who has owned both a Revo and an Inspiration.
Inspiration's work fine, and IMHO are much better with the rear mounted counterlungs, but I prefer the revo. Given that you don't want to fiddle I'd suggest either the revo or an Inspiration vision with the optional back mounted counter lungs.
I've also dived a JJ and and while I (just)personally prefer the revo, it's so close that if either a JJ or an inspo vision were sat in front of me ready to dive and the revo wasn't ready to dive, I'd take them instead of prepping the revo.
Going with the revo or Inspiration also gives you a mate with the same unit, which can be handy.
 
Thanks for the various PM's and replies here, all very useful stuff.

Thanks Paul, I was pointed to that a few days ago.

The liberty is a new one on me, I'll add it to the investigate list.

I'm in the process of organising some try dives, hopefully I'll find a model that suits me perfectly and it will make the decision much easier...
 
Hi Paul,

Thank you for posting the link to your thoughtful, insightful and well-written article. I just finished reading it and loved it. I have the good fortune to be working with an instructor/trainer who thinks and acts on the levels extolled in your article. "I've heard this before" came up on many occasions while reading it, because, frankly, I have. And, I love reading articles like this one for the express intention of sinking the information in as deeply as possible. I greatly appreciate your views and will be frequenting your site for more CCR goodness.

I'm a novice CCR owner/diver. And as I prepare my machine, it's a ritual affair. Once I get on board a dive boat, the entire ritual is repeated. I pre-breathe my rig no less than 4 times before going under and this gives me a feeling of calm in knowing I've done my best to insure a safe dive. And I watch and manually adjust my PO2 like a hawk.

Thanks again, Paul. Brilliant all the way through...

Cheers!

Clint

I encourage you to have a read of the following from the downloads section of my web-site WWW.HAYNESMARINE.COM:

http://www.haynesmarine.co.uk/images/stories/A Survival Guide To Rebreather Diving Nov 2011.pdf

Rgds

Paul
 
Since you're in the UK look at JJ, rEvo and Inspiration (in that order) and pick, don't buy a Yankee-doodle machine, shop local.

Irrespective anyway as those are the best 3 on the market right now anyway.

Don't buy a Yankee-doodle machine? What the hell is wrong with you? What is that even supposed to mean? I dive an American made unit and have yet to miss a dive in over 2 years. I order spares from the US and dive around the world. Far less problems than APD. I'll concede that JJ and rEvo make some seriously good machines, but you're deluding yourself if you think the Americans aren't putting out amazing machines as well.

JJ, rEvo, Inspiration? There are a lot of great units out there. I have a Prism 2. Love it. Never had a problem. I generally agree with shopping local, but not if it means I'm going to get a machine I'm unhappy with. Try dive the units. It's the only way.
 
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I agree with Chris, 'murica!

Support is the long term goal once you have picked a unit that fits you and fulfills your needs. But now there is worldwide support for pretty much any unit as long as u have access to the internet and shipping. I would have to consider diving the same units as my dive buddy/buddies as a plus for their experience and parts collections.

And Chris, if you keep this up they will point out that you married a foreigner and moved out of the country, just saying




Don't buy a Yankee-doodle machine? What the hell is wrong with you? What is that even supposed to mean? I dive an American made unit and have yet to miss a dive in over 2 years. I order spares from the US and dive around the world. Far less problems than APD. I'll concede that JJ and rEvo make some seriously good machines, but you're deluding yourself if you think the Americans aren't putting out amazing machines as well.

JJ, rEvo, Inspiration? There are a lot of great units out there. I have a Prism 2. Love it. Never had a problem. I generally agree with shopping local, but not if it means I'm going to get a machine I'm unhappy with. Try dive the units. It's the only way.
 
I agree with Chris, 'murica!

And Chris, if you keep this up they will point out that you married a foreigner and moved out of the country, just saying



H2Ocaver...

I suppose that's true, but it doesn't mean I won't be bringing a little bit of home with me everywhere we go!
 
Don't buy a Yankee-doodle machine? What the hell is wrong with you? What is that even supposed to mean? I dive an American made unit and have yet to miss a dive in over 2 years. I order spares from the US and dive around the world. Far less problems than APD. I'll concede that JJ and rEvo make some seriously good machines, but you're deluding yourself if you think the Americans aren't putting out amazing machines as well.

JJ, rEvo, Inspiration? There are a lot of great units out there. I have a Prism 2. Love it. Never had a problem. I generally agree with shopping local, but not if it means I'm going to get a machine I'm unhappy with. Try dive the units. It's the only way.



I am in the UK and shipping bits for repair back and forth to the USA was a very expensive nightmare I wouldn't want to repeet

Its a key deciding factor in my buying decisions now. Id only consider a USA based ECCR macheen if servicing repairs and spares were readily available in the UK

Only exception to this is the KISS which is MCCR so not likley to need the head shipping back and forth

Havent had any issues with EU countries & postage is cheep

ATB

Mark
 
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