What's going on here? IS this a mistake or Dirty Pool?????

I want to thank everyone for participating in this thread...it certainly has had a lot of views and has brought lots of attention to the JJ in the US market place :-) Free Speech, a spirited debate and the free market place is what it is all about here in the US.

The repricing of the US JJ CCR was started before this thread was ever created ...Price change is put in place because of the ever changing exchange rates between different currencies, supply and demand, and current competition in the market place the product is being sold"...and not what some people might say about the business owner or by dictating how the business should be run.

The US pricing has always been independent of the pricing shown on the JJ website.....and this was established by agreement. The US pricing in the past has never been displayed or published and the JJ website has never indicated that it's pricing was reflective of the US market place.

When someone would email me or call me with interest in the JJ, I would then communicate with them the current pricing.

On this forum and thread is the first time I have stated the pricing in writing. Pricing of the US JJ-CCR and almost any other product I know of is always "Subject To Change", and of course, there are many things that influence pricing, and in my case it has never been about being "unethical", "sleazy", "gready", or "a bit shady" as has been stated by some on this thread, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. People that know me, know this is not true....

Since this thread was started, I have had several new inquiries about the JJ-CCR :-)

Thanks everyone !!!

Cheers,

Curt
Rebreathers USA, LLC
 
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Dr.Alex said:
Porsche CH website 911 GT3 no extras RP $ 204 103 (inkl tax) :-(
Well, Germany is not too far...
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Hoffi and Dr. Alex

you should both stop complaining!

Denmark:
991 911 GT3 no extras RP$ 450904.08 US Dollar

interesting thing is that even after I have owned my Cayman in the US for more than a year i would still have to pay twice what I paid for it to get danish plates on it if I wanted to take it with me.....:realmad:

For the rest of it - supply and demand, if you think the product is worth the price you buy it, if not you dont - very simple. if the importer dosent sell any units, he would have to reconsider his price, if he still shifts units, it probably the correct price for the market.
 
Better to bike then.:-)

But yes, price wise Denmark and CH are quite similar.

Fully agree with the markt, demand and supply.
 
Interresting thread..

I actually just had this exact conversation with Curt today.. He quoted me $9,000 USD before tax, so after WA state tax it will be closer to $10,000 USD to buy directly from the local DISTRIBUTOR.. (not instructor or dealer since im already JJ certified)

The JJ advertised "international unit" price is $7350 USD (according to todays exchange rate..) thats after tax 35% price increase felt on my pocket than buying direct from JJ..

Think about this.. It will be significantly cheaper to buy a plane ticket, fly to Europe and buy a JJ CCR there and fly back.. And will probably have a fair chunk of cash left over to cover training (if you werent already certified..)

Something doesnt seem right... but maybe thats just me.. either poor Curt is being screwed by JJ and not giving him enough margin to cover overheads as a "distributor" or theres a monopoly being created in the US market...
 
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Why dont you try it? JJ price in euro is 7190 plus 25% tax plus shipping to the instructor you buy it from ( you still have to buy it through your instructor) now you have to carry it back to the states, maybe excess baggage charges!!! You might be able to claim your vat back if you can prove its an export but then you will have to do a US import and pay those charges plus of course your flight and staying expenses!!!.
You do the maths
 
ccrdave said:
Why dont you try it? JJ price in euro is 7190 plus 25% tax plus shipping to the instructor you buy it from ( you still have to buy it through your instructor) now you have to carry it back to the states, maybe excess baggage charges!!! You might be able to claim your vat back if you can prove its an export but then you will have to do a US import and pay those charges plus of course your flight and staying expenses!!!.
You do the maths
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You never need to claim any VAT back Dave. If you sell it to a customer outside EU you should not ad VAT to the invoice. As long as the person proves he is taking it outside EU. Then they pay VAT when they arrive in the US or what ever country outside EU.

But I think you have another problem here, can you buy a International version inside EU? I think the only way of doing that is if JJ sold them directley and not through a instructor placed inside EU.
 
We cannot sell units inside eu without charging vat unless the customer has it shipped outside eu or had a vat number non ce units cant be sold inside eu
 
ccrdave said:
We cannot sell units inside eu without charging vat unless the customer has it shipped outside eu or had a vat number non ce units cant be sold inside eu
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I think the last part is the most importent to the discussion about going over and buying a unit.
As you say, they will get a CE version and the price charged in the US will be the same at the end.
 
So, what happens to the people who buy "international lite" editions directly from JJ and have it shipped to them? For example someone living in like Japan or whatever the "international" market for JJ is targeted at? IIRC before we had a us "distributor" in the middle, you could buy directly from JJ at their advertised retail prices..

Also if you are already JJ certified and buy a unit directly from JJ, there is no reason to ship it to an instructor? correct?

its just odd to me that there exists an "international" unit advertised on the JJ price list but for some weird reason the US does not qualify as "international"?

I am a dealer for various international scuba equipment manufacturers and when I buy the items in euro, they ship directly to me and I dont pay VAT, there is some small import duty, but usually the "dealer" or "distributor" price break will more than cover all those overheads.. I would imagine JJ doesnt sell the units to a "distributor" at retail though..

either way, its like Curt said.. its a free market.. And I was told I can buy where-ever I want... But, I was also cautioned that I might one day need "service or parts".. i.e. i might be refused service or parts from the distributor? not sure what that comment meant..
 
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Ok let me try and clear a couple of points, the international version is a non ce unit that can only be sold outside of eu.

jJ-CCR do not deal direct with divers even if you have a jj cert you still have to go through an instructor. apart from the US all of our instructors are our dealers we dont have distributors. the student deals directly with the instructor who deals directly with jj-ccr. and the instructor should be the first point of call if there is a problem It different in the states for onen very big reason LIABILITY we need to have a US agent to help to protect the parent company from law suits. Its Curt who puts his head on the chopping block and its Curt who has to pay a wacking great liability insurance policy every year. because of this liablity US citizens are "encouraged" to buy from the US source that way from an insurance point of view the company is covered, the distributor is covered, the training instructor is covered (sort of) and the diver has a liability waiver agreement. this is an unfortunate fact of your legal system.
On another point Koos you are GuE trained right? if so then as per our agreement with GUE you should be buying the unit through them. they buy an incomplete unit from us and build it up into their specific configuration. the GUE training program is also spesific to the unit configuration that they use, the skills are different the mindset is different and it works extremly well with like minded buddies. its the reason that we require a gue trained diver to do a crossover course if he/she subsequently wanted to buy a factory standard unit
 
Hello Dave! Thanks for the input, it will clear up a lot im sure.. I already have a JJ CCR that i bought 2 years ago and love it..

I have 2 questions for you though.. since I am not required, but only "encouraged" to buy from the US "agent".

QUESTION 1: If I was an already certified JJ CCR Diver (irrespective of agency) and I called JJ today and asked to buy a JJ-CCR unit at your advertised "international lite" price of 6,778.00 Euros and asked to please ship it to my local instructor in the US and then I picked any one of your North American instructors listed on your web site..

What would you charge my credit card??

QUESTION 2: If I was NOT an already certified JJ CCR Diver and I enrolled in a class with any one of your North American instructors and I called JJ today and asked to buy a JJ-CCR unit at your advertised "international lite" price of 6,778.00 Euros and asked to please ship it to my local instructor in the US that I am doing training with..

What would you charge my credit card??

A simple Euros or US Dollar amount answer for Question 1 and 2 would be awesome..

thanks!!
 
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Ok Its Jan really who would have the exact word on this but as far as I know
question 1
Jan would tell you to talk to the us distributor, Jan would tell any of our US instructors to talk to our US distributor. main reason, LIABILITY all US sales have to go through the us distributor, all gue sales have to go through gue, again because of the liability process. Now I am not saying you couldnt come to europe, buy a unit (it would have to be CE)pay vat and get the unit shipped to your (european) instructor . or you could go to an Asian or Australian instructor and buy from them but you will bypass the aftersales service in the states.
question 2 same thing as question one applies you are entitled to do your course wherever you like, and whatver instructor you use is your point of after sales service
At the end you have to decide what works best for you and it shouldnt be only down to money but I do understand we all want the best deal we can get. It really pisses me off when I buy US product imported into the uk and all they do is change the dollar sign for a pound sign, but to be honets you have to see the big picture and not just the visible price. We worked for three years to try to find a way to seel in the US without getting our arses chucked in jail at the first incident, our answer was CURT and contrary to some of the comments on this thread he is honest , honorable and doesnt rip you off but he does have to make a living and to cover the time and cost of protecting himself and us from a legal point.
The US price is what it is, I doubt buying elsewhere in the world would work out cheaper in the long run but of course the choice is your, you can buy whatever you want, if you dont like our pricing structre or our policies there are plenty of other fine rebreathers on the market whos policies my suit you better, the choice is absolutely down to you and any other prospective rebreather buyer and thats exactly how it should be
 
Thanks Dave! Appreciate it. I know Curt well, and for the record, he is a very very standup person and extremely honest and I have a lot of respect for him.

It seems that the US price "is what it is" and the US Distributor can fix that price how they see fit and US Consumers are SOL.. thats OK.. I just wanted that confirmation..

And looks like JJ would enforce US consumers to buy from US distributor at the US distributor price, even though all other parts of the world pays different prices. i.e. JJ and US Distributor willfully working together to control the US market price..

If all above is true, it is a Federal Offense and illegal in the united states for a manufacturer and reseller to control the price and create a monopoly.

The Federal Trade Commission of the United States will frown heavily on such a monopoly and price fixing and the "Sherman Antritrust Act" strictly prohibits such price fixing enforced on US Consumers.. JJ and Curt may or may not land in some hot water if they were to be investigated by the Federal Trade Commission..

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/com...ws/single-firm-conduct/monopolization-defined

just sayin...
 
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I dont jj would enforce anyone to buy where they didnt want to. We have one outlet in the usa that supports the infrastructure I think you would find the same from the likes of inspiration. Revo and any other non US rebreather product

Sent from my SGP311 using Tapatalk
 
So that means if a person want to buy from jj direct at euro price point as advertised, they can call tomorrow and have a unit shipped to the United States directly to one of the listed instructors?
 
Like I said the fine detail is down to jan so you would have to ask him on that one and the problem i can see is the liability cover but if you can find a US who is willing to take on the liability of your purchase why dont you try and see what happens
 
kdupreez said:
If all above is true, it is a Federal Offense and illegal in the united states for a manufacturer and reseller to control the price and create a monopoly.



https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/com...ws/single-firm-conduct/monopolization-defined

just sayin...
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From the first paragraph of the link you left:

As a first step, courts ask if the firm has "monopoly power" in any market. This requires in-depth study of the products sold by the leading firm, and any alternative products consumers may turn to if the firm attempted to raise prices.

As The JJ is one of a number of alternatives there is no "monopoly power". Therefore the Sherman act appears not to apply.
 
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