What's going on here? IS this a mistake or Dirty Pool?????

DSix36 said:
I think that JONT needs to voice his opinion with his wallet more and his keyboard less. If the JJ price is too high for you then perhaps you should just not buy one and go get something else. When did it become your place to try to dictate the business practices of someone?

Or.......... maybe you are just waiting for Curt to pay you off with goodies and a cheap unit to get you to be quiet. Just an wild idea I came up with.

Flame suit on, so give it hell!
Click to expand...

I think I will need to agree with DSix36. If ther price is not correct for JONT he just should not buy the JJ and thats all. That is market.


Sent from my PAP4500DUO using Tapatalk 2
 
For the sake of adding:

Cost of medical treatment for hepatitis C with Sovaldi in different countries, in euro:

USA 67,000
Germany 55,000
UK 45,000
Canada 45,000
India 600
Spain 25,000
Egypt 900

The amount of ill people is about 150 million around the world.
 
andrespp said:
For the sake of adding:

Cost of medical treatment for hepatitis C with Sovaldi in different countries, in euro:

USA 67,000
Germany 55,000
UK 45,000
Canada 45,000
India 600
Spain 25,000
Egypt 900

The amount of ill people is about 150 million around the world.
Click to expand...

Yes, but how much is the JJ in India?
 
andrespp said:
For the sake of adding:

Cost of medical treatment for hepatitis C with Sovaldi in different countries, in euro:

USA 67,000
Germany 55,000
UK 45,000
Canada 45,000
India 600
Spain 25,000
Egypt 900

The amount of ill people is about 150 million around the world.
Click to expand...

Can you show me where Gilead, the manufacturer, published the cost for the public to see? I didn't think so.
 
kwinter said:
Can you show me where Gilead, the manufacturer, published the cost for the public to see? I didn't think so.
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Ken,

Medecins du Monde has published those figures, as they are in an ongoing struggle to have the patent in Europe revoked (as it has been in India)
 
Mod63 said:
Ken,

Medecins du Monde has published those figures, as they are in an ongoing struggle to have the patent in Europe revoked (as it has been in India)
Click to expand...

andrespp said:
I am not aware that Gilead has published this data, probably they are not very interested on doing so.

The info is in this link (webpage of a Spanish TV chain):

http://www.antena3.com/noticias/soc...pagas-segun-pais-que-vivas_2015011200294.html
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Exactly my point. The manufacturer has not published a fixed price and does not seem to want a fixed price. It was up to a third party to investigate and show the price difference for different countries as being unfair. JJ-CCR has posted their one-and-only list price for all the world to see. If that price is significantly different in some countries, what is wrong with a third party like JonT pointing it out?
 
andrespp said:
For the sake of adding:

Cost of medical treatment for hepatitis C with Sovaldi in different countries, in euro:

USA 67,000
Germany 55,000
UK 45,000
Canada 45,000
India 600
Spain 25,000
Egypt 900

The amount of ill people is about 150 million around the world.
Click to expand...

Except in the UK the end user doesn't pay in person if they are a citizen, viva la free at point of use health service b*tches ;-)
 
So i've got it.... I'll Pick up 7 units in India... Then i'll Fly to Egypt and sell one for airfare, then proceed up the list until I get home. Boom, vacation paid for? I'm calling this arbitrage and starting a diving based Hedge Fund.

Nobody try to correct me the flights are booked. :dunce:
 
You all forgets one thing,
The price 6778Euros is with out tax.
So if any one comes here you would have to pay tax no if you buy it in Europe?
Tax in Spain main land is 21%
That gives 6778*21%=8201Euros public normal price
I may be wrong and you can get it tax free?
 
Last edited:
Tmccar1: I think that's kind of the point here. I have two friends over seas frequently. What's stopping someone like Jont from handing those friends 15k and saying, "hey, bring me back two JJ's"

Or, better yet...
My air fare cost $600 to Spain later this year. The cost of the JJ is EU6800 = $7700, the cost of JJ Training is EU800 = $900. so, $600 + $7700 + $900 = $9200. Granted, you gotta pay for food and housing, but you have to pay for that anywhere you go. AND you're getting training in that $9200.

Here's my problem. I have a friend who's a JJ instructor. He spent a lot of money to be a JJ instructor. It kind of sucks that pricing isn't equal or at least close to equal so that people aren't tempted to forego training in the US in lieu of training overseas. Thank God my two friends who are rEvo instructors are not faced with the same dilemmas. I feel like this was put together haphazardly without real knowledge of how dealing in foreign commodities works or at the very least foresight on what the Euro was going to do. And guys, the Euro is going to drop more soon. You don't see these issues with Shearwater, rEvo, Dive Soft, etc. etc.

And believe me. I get it. Curt has spent a lot of money to make this happen. And as the US rep for JJ, he can set the market price. More power to him. He's welcome to do that, but don't be surprised when people are buying their JJ's out of the country because it's cheaper to do so and comes with a free vacation. And that's the real problem as I see it. It really doesn't affect me, but does affect my friends in the industry.
 
So,
Can you buy with out tax or not if so don't you need to declare it when you get in to the US?
If not the price is 8200 Euro to buy in Spain for each unite.?

Superlyte27 said:
Tmccar1: I think that's kind of the point here. I have two friends over seas frequently. What's stopping someone like Jont from handing those friends 15k and saying, "hey, bring me back two JJ's"

Or, better yet...
My air fare cost $600 to Spain later this year. The cost of the JJ is EU6800 = $7700, the cost of JJ Training is EU800 = $900. so, $600 + $7700 + $900 = $9200. Granted, you gotta pay for food and housing, but you have to pay for that anywhere you go. AND you're getting training in that $9200.

Here's my problem. I have a friend who's a JJ instructor. He spent a lot of money to be a JJ instructor. It kind of sucks that pricing isn't equal or at least close to equal so that people aren't tempted to forego training in the US in lieu of training overseas. Thank God my two friends who are rEvo instructors are not faced with the same dilemmas. I feel like this was put together haphazardly without real knowledge of how dealing in foreign commodities works or at the very least foresight on what the Euro was going to do. And guys, the Euro is going to drop more soon. You don't see these issues with Shearwater, rEvo, Dive Soft, etc. etc.

And believe me. I get it. Curt has spent a lot of money to make this happen. And as the US rep for JJ, he can set the market price. More power to him. He's welcome to do that, but don't be surprised when people are buying their JJ's out of the country because it's cheaper to do so and comes with a free vacation. And that's the real problem as I see it. It really doesn't affect me, but does affect my friends in the industry.
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Not sure I'd buy it in Spain. Haven't really done any serious homework as I don't intend to buy one. Just listing some basic math. There are other considerations, like if I bring it back on a commercial airline, now I've got weight issues with my luggage.
 
Where ever you buy it in Europe you will have to pay the tax at point of sale (UK = 20%, Malta = 18%, Spain = 21%, etc) and then attempt to claim it back on departure. You would then need to pay any import duties due on entry to the US. You can't claim it's second hand because then you couldn't claim back the EU duty...
 
Tompaspain said:
You all forgets one thing,
The price 6778Euros is with out tax.
So if any one comes here you would have to pay tax no if you buy it in Europe?
Tax in Spain main land is 21%
That gives 6778*21%=8201Euros public normal price
I may be wrong and you can get it tax free?
Click to expand...

Thats incorrect, EU products bought for EXPORT are NOT subjected to tax in the sense you are referring to, and TAX has nothing to do with the MSRP set by the manufacturer.

TAX by definition is something forced on society by a government to pay for the expenses of that government and has nothing to do with any individual manufacturer.
 
From reading this thread, I am amazed at the US importer's tact and diplomacy. He is under no obligation to justify his sales price, share his cost prices or explain the inner workings of his business to anyone. If you want to buy a JJ from him, go for it... If you're too cheap to pay his asking price, ask him for a deal. If you still don't want to pay the price, buy one in Europe and take it home or buy something different. The choice is yours but I wouldn't expect him to support your grey import unit if it goes wrong.
 
j_b said:
I wouldn't expect him to support your grey import unit if it goes wrong.
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Wow really? The importer is the warranty now?

The whole concept of a EU unit being imported by a private individual and somehow thereby turning into an "unauthorized" sale is straight out of the bullshit scubapro playerbook.
 
rjack said:
Wow really? The importer is the warranty now?
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I'm not saying he wouldn't, I'm saying I wouldn't expect him to. within Europe you can't get away with it but transatlantic?

Edit: work carried out under warranty normally incurs a cost to the dealer of some sort, even if it's "just" time.
 
j_b said:
From reading this thread, I am amazed at the US importer's tact and diplomacy. He is under no obligation to justify his sales price, share his cost prices or explain the inner workings of his business to anyone. If you want to buy a JJ from him, go for it... If you're too cheap to pay his asking price, ask him for a deal. If you still don't want to pay the price, buy one in Europe and take it home or buy something different. The choice is yours but I wouldn't expect him to support your grey import unit if it goes wrong.
Click to expand...

You have some fair points but all are narrow minded:

1) No one here has ever asked him to share any of his costs or explain his business workings, no one here would ever ask him to explain those things so to suggest that is dishonest.
2) Questioning the price isn't being cheap its being smart, people that have money don't spend because some fool calls them cheap.....LOL
3) The manufacturer of the unit has the MSRP for the LIGHT EXPORT unit (Q3, 2014) set at EURO $6778.00 so not questioning that is foolish.......after all the RP stands for RETAIL PRICE.
4) JJ is a brand name and when issues like this exist the brand name becomes tarnished because there's no reason to allow such a reason to exist, it is 100% avoidable and manageable.
5) If the importer has the service contract for a particular region he would be required to service ANY unit that comes in, with diving he may ask to see proof that he's qualified to operate the unit but that it, refusing to service a foreign bought unit would be suicide and KURT is a good guy he would NEVER do such a thing so suggesting he would or should is silly and insulting.
6) How is the domestic sales force (called instructors) supposed to justify a price more then what the BUILDERS (Mfg.) says it is? Now answer that question without having to use vague and ambiguous verbiage like cost of doing business, insurance costs, expensive jurisdiction, blah blah blah. What do you tell the instructors that have spent time and money on the JJ that are now priced out of the market??? With the Euro where it is these things should be selling like crazy.


Next time you put penn to paper you may want to think a bit more first.

All the best,

Jon
 
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