Fourth Element Kevlar Argonaut - First Dive

CCR Josh

"Rebreather Enthusiast"


As some of you may know, the Dive Addicts Exploration Team has been involved with several cave projects here in Utah over the last 5 years or so. Our latest is the most exciting, technical, promising and challenging yet. It involves navigating down/through over 1200 feet vertical over the course of about 1 mile (with our rebreathers and all equipment) - just to get to the terminal sump!
(More will be posted later on the Main Drain Diving Project #MDDP)

Because of the difficulty of the approach, and the fact that we would be hauling all our gear in and out with the help of only 2-3 other cavers, we went on a search for the optimal equipment for this type of diving.

Along with lighter regs and lights, we needed dry suits that fulfilled the following guidelines:

  1. Durable
  2. Light weight
  3. Good packability
  4. Dried Quickly (or could be wiped out with a chammy and be mostly dry)
  5. Easy to repair if nessesary

Just to give you a bit of background for this review - I am the manager of Dive Addicts, and yes, I do sell Fourth Element suits... along with at least 5 other brands of dry suits. I tend to use and abuse my equipment, a lot. I feel like this gives me a somewhat unique perspective since I can help my customers find the right suit for them. I personally previously owned 5 different dry suits, of differing styles, types and materials.

We already all dive Fourth Element undergarments when in dry suits, so we thought we would give the new Fourth Element Argonaut Kevlar suit a try. It is fairly light, packs small and feels durable as well. I had sold a couple to customers and heard only good things about them so far.

A few things to know about the Argonaut suits:
The Argonaut is a “standard shell suit” design, with a bunch of great features and plenty of options. Some of the features that attracted me to the Argonaut suit:

Breathable - being as we are in and out of the water when passing through sumps, breathability is a must. So far so good.


Plastic Zipper - I have used these zippers on other suits as well and sold them to a number of customers. I am in love. Lower profile, great durability, light-weight etc etc. Like I said, I am in love.

Large Thigh Pockets - These come standard on the suit - I always use thigh pockets. Being a cave diver, I like to eliminate the "danglees" and have standard storage places for my safety critical equipment (safety spool, arrows, line cutter etc etc) The standard pockets come with D-rings, bungee loops and a wetnotes sleeve. They also have a small zipper pocket on the flap of the pocket for smaller items. They also make the velcro flap easy to grab with dry gloves.


Sturdy Built in Boots - I like the FE boots so far (I picked the sturdier of the two options). We wanted built in boots for simplicity and weight. We needed sturdy boots for carrying tanks across rocks etc. Not too much to say, except they are working as advertised!

Diving with the suit so far...
Notice this thread has the words "First Dive" in it, so that I what I am reviewing - my first "in water" experience with the suit. If we were going to be using this suit for the MDDP, I wanted to make sure it could hold up to the abuse we would be putting it through. I wanted to make sure we could trust it, as in environment like Main Drain, if our suit didn’t do it’s job, lives would be in danger.

So.....What did I put it through for it’s first dip in the water? Kneeling on sharp rocks to kit up, squeezing through several tight sidemount restrictions and crawling through rocky holes and tunnels in order to see a newly discovered dry section in Rick’s Spring.... and then out again - all in 43 degree (6 c) water. About a 2 hour dive just to break it in.

In short:
The suit performed flawlessly, is comfortable, fits well, is holding up well so far and looks pretty dang good at the same time! It dried quickly & rolls up small. I haven't had to repair it yet (thankfully), so I guess I will have to wait and see about that bit. I can’t wait to take it on more adventures. I will continue to update this thread with any notable dives or events the suit accompanies me on.

If anyone has any questions or would like more info on the suit, just let me know! Also - if any of you have experience with the suit (breathable kevlar or cordura flex versions), please do share.

 
Hey Josh,

Great review and I appreciate the fact that you made FULL DISCLOSURE, thats not something you see everyday.
 
It's almost identical to the Ursuit BDS, is it actually made by them? It has to be a great suit as I have the BDS and love it :-)
 
Fourth Element Argonaut Kevlar, eh? For cave diving?

You expecting to run into much gunfire in these caves?

:)

Quick Q: what dry glove system do you use? And how big are the pockets, compared to, say, the big Halcyon ones?

Cheers,

Matthieu
 
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Fourth Element Argonaut Kevlar, eh? For cave diving?

You expecting to run into much gunfire in these caves?

:)

You never know! :) we went with the Kevlar because it was lighter than the cordura, but still durable.

Quick Q: what dry glove system do you use? And how big are the pockets, compared to, say, the big Halcyon ones?

Cheers,

Matthieu

I am using the Si-tech oval rings. Loving them so far. They are a bit lower profile than other rings I have used. They also work well with the variety of gloves I have.

The FE pockets approx 11 inch x 7.5 inch or 28cm x 19cm and about 3 inches or 9cm deep. Not sure how that compares to the Halcyon pockets.




Sent from my rebreather using Tapatalk...
 
It's almost identical to the Ursuit BDS, is it actually made by them? It has to be a great suit as I have the BDS and love it :-)

Don't see too many Ursuits over here, but I have heard great things about them.


Sent from my rebreather using Tapatalk...
 
The FE pockets approx 11 inch x 7.5 inch or 28cm x 19cm and about 3 inches or 9cm deep. Not sure how that compares to the Halcyon pockets.

If it helps in that picture of the muddy pocket I had Hollis wetnotes, a Light Monkey 2W light, and a spool. I still had PLENTY of room in there.
 
Dimensions work for me :-) . I just mentioned the Halcyon because I have one, just in case it was easier.

Cheers,

Matthieu
 
Hi Michael
I was wondering do you believe the suit is worth the price it retails at?? Over here it is retailing at the equivalent price of $2,500.

All the best

Cathal
 
I've done about 20 dives in my FE Kevlar (latex wrists, neoprene neck, tech boots), mostly benign conditions but with a bit of kneeling/clambering over rocks and squeezing through wrecks (UK). I agree with all in the OP's post. A few observations after further use, YMMV:
- I'm still loving the lightness, all-day comfort and ultra-quick drying (my other suit is a 1mm neo-laminate front loader, beautiful and marginally warmer but heavy and slow to dry)
- I dive suit for buoyancy and the gas migration and control is fantastic, as much down to cut & tailoring as flexibility I suspect
- early production suits (like mine) had an issue with corrosion of the alloy FE badges on the valves - purely aesthetic, but resolved with replacement Tufflex resin versions developed and provided unprompted by FE. Kudos for great service & support
- they are indeed very similar to the Ursuit BDS - I'm not certain, but I think the pocket loops/D-rings, zip, boots, seams and cut may be different

DLK
 
Hi Michael
I was wondering do you believe the suit is worth the price it retails at?? Over here it is retailing at the equivalent price of $2,500.

All the best

Cathal

I do think that is a fair price. When you compare what you are getting with other suits. This comes standard with 2 great pockets etc. the only thing I added to mine was a pee valve and ring system for dry gloves. It's great value for the price.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
 
"It's very cheap, check out Saanti and DUI!"

To be honest I was thinking about the range from O Three. I needed to buy a dry suit this year and I applied some forward planning, my short to medium aim was to be diving the classics of Malin Head. The "wetmules" cave diving team thought the O Three compressed 2 mm suit was brilliant. Also nearly all of the divers doing the serious dives in Malin use O Three as well.
For these reasons I opted for an O Three made to measure 2mm compressed neoprene drysuit with a P Valve and P zip installed. I also had an outer heavy duty latex wrist seal added so that I could fit my rolock dry gloves. All in all it came to about €1350 or $1796. Now I had to send the suit back due to a rip in the neck seal and the P Valve leaking inside the suit, so I was not impressed. But seeing how everyone else who all are doing serious diving are very happy with their O Three suits I reckon my issues were a once of event, I'm putting it down to a 'monday morning' suit. Since it came back every dive has been dry and P valve works great (customer service was first class).

Finally to get to my point, I just don't see how the 4th element is worth the extra $700 with not even a P valve added.


Cathal
 
Finally to get to my point, I just don't see how the 4th element is worth the extra $700 with not even a P valve added.

For us, we needed a LIGHT WEIGHT (no such thing as a light weight neoprene dry suit....), small packing, quick drying suit. Easily worth an extra $700 for our project.
 
...
To be honest I was thinking about the range from O Three.
...
Finally to get to my point, I just don't see how the 4th element is worth the extra $700 with not even a P valve added.
Cathal

My other suit is an O Three r1-100. I can't say I don't love it, because I do. The extra $700 (~$400 vs r1-100??) buys you extreme lightness & flexibility, very fast drying and, in my case, what feels like slightly better control of gas migration. Whether this is worth it is of course subjective. Personally, my requirements dictated a tough, light, high-end membrane and I considered Santi, DUI and Ursuit. I'm sure they're all great, but went with FE because I know their service is both fantastic and local.

I haven't dived my O Three for a couple of months (since I got the FE Kevlar), but in the interests of science(!) I'll take both on my next trip and dive them back-to-back. Watch this space!

DLK
 
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Josh & Michael

I'm about to order my Kevlar 4E suit - just deciding on what boot. pros and cons of each?

Thanks

Steve


Steve - you will love the suit for wreck and cave diving!

I went with the more durable boot b/c I knew I would be walking across rocks, climbing, rappelling etc in the suit. I am glad I did - they are not as bulky as other built in heavy duty boots I have used. They are not quite as sturdy as a rock boot setup, but I think they are a great compromise. I have some tech boot style boots on another dry suit, and I would not want to do much walking in them.

As far as ease of kicking etc - I personally don't think there will be much difference between the 3 options (2 boots, 1 neoprene sock with boot over it). You MAY need to change sizes in your fin, but that may depend on if you are on the small or large end of your current size. I am using the same fins that I do in Cayman with my FE Amphibian wet boot.

Hope that helps!
 
Quick update....

Been diving my Argonaut quite a bit. I have taken it to the FL caves on a couple trips and it has performed well. I sized the suit to fit well with my heavy under suits (Halo 3D w/ dry base), so in the warm waters of FL, my suit is a bit baggy. I, fine with that, as I got this suit to be used with dry gloves in cold water. Bone dry so far, comfortable, holding up well.

I think I am a convert to the built in boots and oval ring system. I love having warm feet and hands along with not being able to forget my boots.

I would like to think it has to do with me rather than the suit, but I have had more people come up and ask me about the suit than ever before :sarcy:..... it is just so dang good looking!
 
Quick update....

Been diving my Argonaut quite a bit. I have taken it to the FL caves on a couple trips and it has performed well. I sized the suit to fit well with my heavy under suits (Halo 3D w/ dry base), so in the warm waters of FL, my suit is a bit baggy. I, fine with that, as I got this suit to be used with dry gloves in cold water. Bone dry so far, comfortable, holding up well.

I think I am a convert to the built in boots and oval ring system. I love having warm feet and hands along with not being able to forget my boots.

I would like to think it has to do with me rather than the suit, but I have had more people come up and ask me about the suit than ever before :sarcy:..... it is just so dang good looking!

Good job as this is the specification I have ordered!!! Take delivery of mine in March!!!
 
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