Trimix analyser, Divesoft or Analox?

[divingtactics]

Hi
I have contacted Divesoft, however they are unfortunately one of these companies with a good product that does not answer emails.

Cheers
Stuey

Stuey,

I think there is possibly a language barrier issue in dealing directly with Divesoft.

Talk to John Routley at Narked @ 90, you couldn't find a more stand up guy, he should be able to help you with Divesoft issues.

 

[mmarcoux]

I bought a divesoft analyzer this past summer and have been very happy with it. It's very easy to calibrate and to use. It seems to be ok with batteries but I'm happier that I never have to worry about a He sensor. It does have gas mixing software in it as well. Price-wise it wasn't bad either.

 

[Aquanomad]

I have had a Divesoft for about a year now. Really thinking about buying the professional flow limiter upgrade but would really like to get the flow limiter inflator as well so i can plug into the q/c's and not have to pull valves all the time. Anyone have luck or experience with those nipples? Almost seems like I can run some tubing between the nipple and hose and achieve the same result. Thought?

 

[jkhaywood]

I have had a divesoft for about two years now, great bit of kit and I havent had any issues.

 

[Nitrogenius]

Well if I'd buy a Trimix analyzer it would be a divesoft for sure.
A lot of friends are using it and are happy with it. I haven't found anybody yet who was not happy with it, whereas with the analox or what's that yellow box (Teledyne?) I am aware of issues..

Nevertheless there is something I'd lake to bring to the table not yet discussed in this thread:
Everytime I had been thinking about buying such analyser I came to the conclusion that it is commercial nonsense and I do not even really need it for convenience even when I a mixing my gases on my own..

The only use I could half way see is in diving OC but with a reabreather?
How many times are you going to use it?
What is the risk/variance of the He level when measuring the Oxy content after mixing? And what impact does such variance have on any decompression modelling?
--> You will quickly come to the conclusion that the benefit for a single fill is very limited..
--> It comes only really into play when topping up multiple times..
--> When do you top up diving a rebreather and what size of tanks are we talking about?
--> Big ones only for Bailout --> rarely used at all
--> small tanks more often --> in comparison to topping up and analysing prior and after is: Empty the tanks and fill it from scratch

I even top up sometimes my BOs and my small onboards as many times at the hot divespots someone with an analyzer is to be found so a check for the ease of mind can be done once in a while without the need of ever owing an analyser..

Just food for thought :wiggle:

 

[divingabe]

I have had a Divesoft for about a year now. Really thinking about buying the professional flow limiter upgrade but would really like to get the flow limiter inflator as well so i can plug into the q/c's and not have to pull valves all the time. Anyone have luck or experience with those nipples? Almost seems like I can run some tubing between the nipple and hose and achieve the same result. Thought?

I have bought a nipple it works as advertised. One draw back it is too small to use by itself to plug into a qc (at least to my liking) so I made up a seperate short hose to permanently attach the nipple to a qc with a male qc at the other end (about 5"). The analyzer works like a charm I just replaced the O2 sensor which I has been in use for 3yrs.
Gabe

 

[CFU]

I even top up sometimes my BOs and my small onboards as many times at the hot divespots someone with an analyzer is to be found so a check for the ease of mind can be done once in a while without the need of ever owing an analyser..

Just food for thought :wiggle:

Well I got a little story to add to that... I recently was on a ccr only trip with some of the major manufacturers, instructors and instructor trainers on a liveaboard with a well respected operator... My divesoft unfortunately was broken and sent in for exchange... I thought oh well no problem there will be enough analyzers around on that boat...
Guess what we had not one single proper working analyzer on board... Got my divesoft back working now and I don't want to miss my own analyzer on any trip anymore...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Baron015]

but with a reabreather?
How many times are you going to use it?

Every. Single. Dive.

I analyse my gasses before every dive, or every time I change cylinders (obv not if I do 2 or more dives on the unit without changing).

So should you and everyone else.

Tb.

 

[Nitrogenius]

Every. Single. Dive.

I analyse my gasses before every dive, or every time I change cylinders (obv not if I do 2 or more dives on the unit without changing).

So should you and everyone else.

Tb.

I think you got me wrong here.. Sure everyone should analyse their gases before every dive..
But for Oxygen content! There is really no essential need to analyse Helium content when you mix your own gas and know what you had been doing!
Of course it is something difficult getting gas from a LDS or some other source but then such source should have an analyzer in any case!

So if you are not completely stupid in the mixing process and you measure an acceptable/reasonable oxygen content then your helium content should be well within the non deco relevant +-5% failure rate on He content in a single fill..
This changes only while topping up a only oxygen analysed mix !

 

[Baron015]

I think you got me wrong here.. Sure everyone should analyse their gases before every dive..
But for Oxygen content! There is really no essential need to analyse Helium content when you mix your own gas and know what you had been doing!
Of course it is something difficult getting gas from a LDS or some other source but then such source should have an analyzer in any case!

So if you are not completely stupid in the mixing process and you measure an acceptable/reasonable oxygen content then your helium content should be well within the non deco relevant +-5% failure rate on He content in a single fill..
This changes only while topping up a only oxygen analysed mix !

Ok fair points. Food for thought indeed. I would still want to analyse to see if I got it right / how close I was.

 

[Nitrogenius]

I would still want to analyse to see if I got it right / how close I was.

I know... That's what I had been doing as well, but then with others analysers
But the outcome was always very close..
So it really is only an ease of mind thing..

The worst I had ever mixed in now 3 years was a 19/40 when I wanted a 18/45..
From a He point of view this would still not make an impact on deco obligation but it would have shown up with a sole oxygen analyses as well and if I expect to see something around 18 and I get a 19,3 % as in that case I know somethings odd and would not use the mix without double check..
Sure without someone where I could check waht was wrong with a He analayser I would have had to redo the mix from scratch if I had needed it immediately .. but you can do have such occasions quite acouple of times before an analyser would have paid of...

 

[emmbee]

The worst I had ever mixed in now 3 years was a 19/40 when I wanted a 18/45..

No. The worst you know you had ever mixed was... Bit of a difference.

Your argument comes down to "A trimix analyser is uneconomical because 1) I can empty first, and 2) I can borrow one". Did I get this right?

So:
1) how's that for uneconomical, and what happens when you're in the middle of nowhere and you need to top up your 12/50 with somebody's 10/70?
2) so actually you do need one, you just don't want to spend the money, and all this "it doesn't matter" is just a posteriori justification - of course if you want to use the computer's conservatism that way, nobody's stopping you.

Back on topic, +1 for divesoft. Not sure which flow limiter I have, if it can't read He, I have to tighten the valve. No problem, just less than perfect. Otherwise it's great.

Matthieu

 

[Davydive]

Well I got a little story to add to that... I recently was on a ccr only trip with some of the major manufacturers, instructors and instructor trainers on a liveaboard with a well respected operator... My divesoft unfortunately was broken and sent in for exchange... I thought oh well no problem there will be enough analyzers around on that boat...
Guess what we had not one single proper working analyzer on board... Got my divesoft back working now and I don't want to miss my own analyzer on any trip anymore...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I didn't have any issues with my Analox trimix analyzer on that trip.

Cheers!

 

[Nitrogenius]

No. The worst you know you had ever mixed was... Bit of a difference.

Nope.. Incorrent.. So far I had been analysing all my mixes also for Helium content for the reason given by Baron..
For ease of mind. The argument I am represting here is not mine as well. I was sceptical in the beginning as well so I wanted to make sure.. The further I move ahead in time and experience in mixing and validating I come to the conclusion that the statement is in fact correct:
As long as your measured oxygen fraction is within the expected levels your Helium content is as well within a very tolerable variation (remember that is always a fill from scratch !)

Your argument comes down to "A trimix analyser is uneconomical because 1) I can empty first, and 2) I can borrow one". Did I get this right?

Not quite my argument comes down that it is uneconomical for most users and you'd have to compare the cost of it towards the cost of lost remaining fills (emptying instead of topping up)
Number second would only come into play for the remaining doubt (as it had been for me) for a lack of experience in mixing results, ease of mind etc..

1) how's that for uneconomical, and what happens when you're in the middle of nowhere and you need to top up your 12/50 with somebody's 10/70?

Well being in the middle of nowhere and having the need to top up with a different mix is a bit of a extreme edge argument innit?
You will always find a case to make an analyser sensible when you aim for that. It is a fair question if your majority of your diving is in an environment that you need to do this frequently.. well then the answer is simple.. you have the need for on, but I doubt that this is the case for a majority of the people buying a helium analyser..
Most buys are done for convenience more then an actual need, that is what I perceive..
As I said it was also just food for thought. If one comes to the conclusion to need one anyway, I am not threatening anyone with a gun saying don't buy it !
BTW I do not see your argument countering the economical side, but on the practical side to be able to do such dives or not..
Nevertheless it comes down to the qualitiy of the initial mixes to be topped up and to top up from.. If for instance these had been tested for He content before going into the middle of nowhere.. Analysing for Oxy level would be sufficient..
In an example 70 bars 12/50 topped up with another 70 bars of someones 10/70 to 140 bars.. the result should be a 11/60.. so if you measure oxygen level of around 11% oxygen.. then you are confident enough of your mix..
even when they not had been analysed for Helium (but the Oxy levels were alright) the the mixes should be somwhere between 12/47-12/53 and 10/67 and 10/73 so your worst resulting mixes (again when your oxy is ok) 11/57-11/63.. so please compare these gases in your planning tool and you will see that the impact on your schedule is negelctable..

2) so actually you do need one, you just don't want to spend the money, and all this "it doesn't matter" is just a posteriori justification

Nope I do not need one that is the whole point! All usage of it is just for convenience and ease of mind !

 

[Nitrogenius]

What I forgot to mention was the potential for the use of poor man mixes as Dils..
When not adding any oxygen in the mix the He content is known with 100% security (or within the accuracy of the oxy analyser) when measuring oxygen content only..

 

[Aquanomad]

Im not effin around. I check my breathing gases period. To each their own. By time Im $30k into rEvo, dpv, and camera "accessories" like this are no brainers. Im getting a cell checker too. Peace of mind is huge for me in the water.

So. About the sensor changes on the Divesoft. Im hearing everything from a year to 3. I'll be running it on the cell checker to see but what are you guys pushing on these. Dive cells I dont mess around and rotate every 6 months. At 1ata calibrated with known gases do we need to be as anal?

What about calibrating at elevation? Does this unit auto compensate?

 

[divingtactics]

Im not effin around. I check my breathing gases period. To each their own. By time Im $30k into rEvo, dpv, and camera "accessories" like this are no brainers. Im getting a cell checker too. Peace of mind is huge for me in the water.

So. About the sensor changes on the Divesoft. Im hearing everything from a year to 3. I'll be running it on the cell checker to see but what are you guys pushing on these. Dive cells I dont mess around and rotate every 6 months. At 1ata calibrated with known gases do we need to be as anal?

What about calibrating at elevation? Does this unit auto compensate?

Very well said indeed!!!! Even for a rEvo guy :big:

I got three years from my first cell, which was the original Teledyne and my next cell was from my JJ and was used in the JJ for a year before I put it into my Divesoft about 8 months ago.

Not much point putting it in the cell checker as it only needs to be able to read 100% oxygen at 1ATA, which is easy to check with any tank of O2. A cell that has failed at 2ATA's may still read perfectly fine at 1ATA.

If you are going to use a cell checker for any cells - especially RB ones, then you should flush the chamber with 100% oxygen for at least half and hour and only then start to take your readings. Cells have a tendency to regenerate a little between dive days - a little like a car battery, so this time you wait will allow for any regeneration to be nullified and true and accurate readings to be read. Paul Raymaekers, Simon Mitchell and Andrew Fock gave a very interesting presentation on cells and cell life at the last Oztek conference, where this was discussed at length. It also makes me realize that an O2 flush at 6m at the start of a dive may not show the true condition of your cells. For what it is worth, I do use a Narked@90 large cell checker.

As far as calibrating at elevation, it depends on what version you have. The blue screen version 2.1 and 2.2 will not compensate. The amber screen version 2.3 will not do it, but the amber screen version 2.4 does have a barometric pressure sensor: Support - DIVESOFT.CZ

And in relation to the validity of owning a Helium analyser; I haven't dumped my DIL tank ever, I just mix on top of mix.

 

[Nitrogenius]

And in relation to the validity of owning a Helium analyser; I haven't dumped my DIL tank ever, I just mix on top of mix.

Exactly.. But how much would it have been to dump a dil tank?
That's the whole point..
If you come to the conclusion that despite the fact that the accuracy for the Helium content is very high when the oxygen fraction is correct you still need and want it for whatever reason (ease of mind, not dumping by principle, etc. etc.)
Then it is a no brainer and you should get one.
However if you are conviced or gain the experience that it is correct that with an expected O2 reading you have the He content in acceptable limits..

Then it makes sense to really have a look at the math of dumping!
Obviously it makes a lot of different what size of dil tzank you use as well..
For myself I have 3 L..
If I dump 70 bars in average per fill
with a 45 % He content in average
--> app. 100 L of He going to the bin..
--> that's EUR 1,5 for me..

--> 400 Fills before an analyser would have paid out for me..
--> min of 8 years of diving at home (abroad with a filling center they will have an analyser)
Question is if the analyser would even last that long or somehow break before and then would never pay back..

Anyhow I see that there is not a lot of folks following my logic.. Maybe a bit like the which rebreather is better debate as most folks contributing already have an analyser and then of course this has to be right to own one!

But let's be honest: Did the He analyser owners ever observe in a finnished mix that the Oxygen content was right but the He content varied more than +/-2or3% from the expected mix?

I bet not and now I leave this topic at reast from my side..

 

[Jeff Pack]

thats an interesting point. My he content generally is pretty close to target, its my o2 numbers that have been off.

2-3% he off isnt any big deal, for o2 it would be.

 

[JONT]

Im going to buy a trimix analyser and have more or less decided on the Divesoft.

It has no helium sensor so it will cost less in the long run and we will not have it in or nearby a engine room on a boat so the cons I heard about does not apply to our use.

If I have missed something I ask anyway to be 100% certain, wish one would you have bought?

Ill pay the same for both of them so don´t use price as an argument.

If money is not a concern get the Divesoft with the pressure sensor and all of the whistles and bells, it will top out at around 1800 and its really cool, will even read cells.