Hollis Explorer vs Poseidon MK6

[Pat413]

Would be great comparing these 2 leaders on the recreational market.

The MK6 is an Eccr, so an advantage in decompression, means longer no-deco time and you can fit any bottles available at different dive centers. Also travel weight seems to be unbeatable.

Price of Explorer is barely 1000 € less and complete with BP/BCD. Runs with Nitrox 32-40% available at nearly every dive center. BMCL is in my opinion a big advantage, as long WOB is good-very good.

Both are quite light, dive ready +- 18 KG and I understand that both make automatic pre-dive sequence and sensor calibration. Don't know how many sensors the Hollis has, MK6 has 2.

Not easy to make any preference...

Any inputs are welcome here. Thanks for your attention.

 

[Jeppe]

CCR vs SCR

Please note that I am partially bias here, since I do dive the MkVI.


The MkVI is a CCR, with all upsides and downsides compared to an SCR. Even though it is aimed at the recreational market, it is a modular unit. This means it can be upgraded to handle both Deco and Trimix as well as 48 m (and soon 60 m).

You dive the MkVI just as you dive any other eCCR, with really only one exception. There is no user input, which means that any error is handled with bailing out.

The single absolute best thing about the MkVI is the ASV (Active Sensor Validation). The MkVI Validate the primary sensor at surface by injecting both diluent and O2. So the unit knows that the cells are good for 1.0. At 6 metres it again injects O2 at the cell, to provide a reading of pO2 1.6 to control that the cell is capable of reading high pO2 values. During the dive it continuously validates the primary sensor with O2 and diluent and build a curve and compare it against the secondary slave sensor. The MkVI does this every 3-4 minutes. The amount of gas used for this check is so small that it is not noticeable other than that you hear the solenoids working.

There are a few things that could have been designed far better, but in total, it is an okay unit. But comparing the MkVI with the Explorer is a bit like comparing lemons and oranges. They are both in the citrus family, but the taste is completely different. And the orange can be upgraded to a blood orange (no pun intended)

The Hollis Explorer is limited to 40M or whatever mix you put in. It has some good technical solutions, like a CO2 tracking system (not sure how it works). But it will still limit your dives to 40M NDL diving, which of course is fine if you are ok with that type of diving. So comparing the MkVI and the Explorer purely as a recreational unit, well.. I guess they are both fine, but I dont reckon that the explorer will be a big seller in Europe. I simply do not see the market for it.

Even though Hollis is saying that their unit is a hybrid, you will still be limited to the gas usage/absorbent. Gas usage is depth dependent. Not saying that you should, but you could do a 4 hour dive in the Red Sea with the MkVI. You simply cannot do that with the Explorer.

SCR (or even Hybrid SCR) is still a trade off and a paraphrase in the evolution of the CCR's (probably gonna get slapped around by the SCR divers now).

 

[Diveratt]

the other advantage with the Poseidon is you could have been diving it for the last 6 months. You will still be waiting for your Hollis to turn up

 

[Ben Field]

Would be great comparing these 2 leaders on the recreational market.

Not sure either would be considered Leaders of anything?

The Explorer in particular is only just out and very few in active private hands, no ones knows how many MK6's have been sold, enough for it to lead? Questionable as it crosses into competion with all the other ECCR's many of which must have sold more in total.

You might better ask to compare them to R-Type Inspiration, Sport KISS and Draeger's long dead SCR range! (The other "restricted" units that you can/could buy)


What would be interesting is to find out why people are interested in making, selling and buying units that are less serviable and less usable than equally priced "normal" rebreathers. The real competion for the Mk6 and Explorer are Open Circuit, in that battle they loose badly.

 

[Jeppe]

Not sure either would be considered Leaders of anything?

The Explorer in particular is only just out and very few in active private hands, no ones knows how many MK6's have been sold, enough for it to lead? Questionable as it crosses into competion with all the other ECCR's many of which must have sold more in total.

I think the key word here is recreational... :sarcy: As there are two units aimed for the recreational market, I guess you could easily say that poseidon is the leading brand.

You might better ask to compare them to R-Type Inspiration, Sport KISS and Draeger's long dead SCR range! (The other "restricted" units that you can/could buy)

Which is the R-type inspiration? I have heard of the Sport kiss, but how many have they sold?

What would be interesting is to find out why people are interested in making, selling and buying units that are less serviable and less usable than equally priced "normal" rebreathers.

Making and selling them = To make money
Buying them = Well, I guess some divers like the whole idea with a light eccr that are easy to dive with.

Let me turn that the other way around; Why Is a "normal rebreather" of such a lousy quality that it will require them to be servicable in the field?

Lets see.... humm.. 80 dives with my MkVI. I have had the need for servicing it.... 1 time (complete electronic failure on diva hud)

Why is it less useable? They does what they are supposed to, down to 40m NDL? why are you bringing up the comparison with a techinical rebreather when comparing it to a recrational?
Why is a standard Volvo less useable on a race track than a porsche?

The real competion for the Mk6 and Explorer are Open Circuit, in that battle they loose badly.

Says who? You? Why do we see "normal rebreather" manufacturers developing recreational eccr units then?

Diving community is small as it is and I think it is sad to see that some still have an ancient mindset when it comes to developing the future of diving. We all do it for a reason. Choosing a rebreather is a personal choice.

 

[Mr Walker]

About 4-5 months ago I heard (through the grapevine, although a reliable source in the business) that the Poseidon sold more RB's in 2012 than all other manufacturers together.

I have no idea if it's completeley true as it's just something I've heard. It would mean that manufacturers are giving up their sales figures to each other while still keeping it from the public.

Anyway, if what I heard is true, Poseidon could be called market leading when it comes to sales as of today. But even if there are reasons to doubt this hearsay I for one am convinced that Poseidon is market leading when it comes to R-type RB's.

R-type breathers are on the move no matter what.

 

[Michael Thornton]

Note I am a Explorer Sport instructor. I am not a diver or instructor on the mkvi, only a service technician.

I decided to go with the explorer for several reasons.

Just with OC gear I think it is better to have separate gear for sport and technical. Trying to get a BC that can be upgraded to handle doubles never is very comfortable. I believe it is the same with the mkvi. It was designed for recreational and now they are trying to make it work in the tech environment.

Both have a lot of new technology and safety technology.
Ther explorer is cheaper, doesn't need 100% O2 and I think is easier.


One of the ONLY cons to the explorer is it is taking longer than they had planned. But that seems to happen among lots of manufacturers.

 

[Jeppe]

I believe it is the same with the mkvi. It was designed for recreational and now they are trying to make it work in the tech environment.

Without making myself sound like a wiseass, I feel that I need to correct you here

The MkVI was developed for the recreational market, by Poseidon. However, the original design from Bill Stone, has always had technical diving part in mind. In one of the first interviews he stated, that other versions that will follow will be technical capable.

The explorer is what it is. Nothing more, nothing less. And has probably more to offer than the MkVI in terms of true recreational diving.

 

[Michael Thornton]

Without making myself sound like a wiseass, I feel that I need to correct you here

The MkVI was developed for the recreational market, by Poseidon. However, the original design from Bill Stone, has always had technical diving part in mind. In one of the first interviews he stated, that other versions that will follow will be technical capable.

The explorer is what it is. Nothing more, nothing less. And has probably more to offer than the MkVI in terms of true recreational diving.

True, from the beginning they were using it on the J2 expedition etc. It is not a bad marketing plan to have one machine that can grow with you. I just prefer to have separate machine tech and recreational. I think it simplifies things. That is my opinion however.

 

[JONT]

Without making myself sound like a wiseass, I feel that I need to correct you here

The MkVI was developed for the recreational market, by Poseidon. However, the original design from Bill Stone, has always had technical diving part in mind. In one of the first interviews he stated, that other versions that will follow will be technical capable.

The explorer is what it is. Nothing more, nothing less. And has probably more to offer than the MkVI in terms of true recreational diving.

Sorry dude, "technical in mind" is a silly thing for Stone to say or infer, he said that like 7 years ago?? or something like that and now these "upgrade kits" are available??????

I thought they were making the "two rebreathers in one" as the technical rig????

The marketing of the MK6 was fraudulent end of story.


The Hollis seems like a much better "recreational" rebreather and was marketed by people that didnt think it was necessary to lie about its capabilities.

 

[JONT]

True, from the beginning they were using it on the J2 expedition etc. It is not a bad marketing plan to have one machine that can grow with you. I just prefer to have separate machine tech and recreational. I think it simplifies things. That is my opinion however.

Thats because you're smart Michael and didnt buy into the BS that the MK6 promotes.

 

[Jeppe]

The marketing of the MK6 was fraudulent end of story.

Really? Whatever...

The Hollis seems like a much better "recreational" rebreather and was marketed by people that didnt think it was necessary to lie about its capabilities.

Okay, I guess I am not really diving with tx to 50 meters then, after all.. :sarcy:

It is always good to read comments from people that obviously has no clue what so ever.

Whatever makes you happy dude... :deadhorse

 

[Chris Brown]

Jeppe - I cant believe you are actually bothering to post on an rccr thread on this forum.

Waste of time.

 

[Jeppe]

Jeppe - I cant believe you are actually bothering to post on an rccr thread on this forum.

Waste of time.

I know.. I never learn....:sarcy:

 

[Michael Thornton]

Jeppe - I cant believe you are actually bothering to post on an rccr thread on this forum.

Waste of time.

I just gave my honest opinion of why I chose to get the explorer and not the mkvi. Seemed to me like I was answering the OPs question. Sorry you consider it a waste of time.


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[Jeppe]

I just gave my honest opinion of why I chose to get the explorer and not the mkvi. Seemed to me like I was answering the OPs question. Sorry you consider it a waste of time.


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I think Chris was referring to a different answer than yours

Some post just so they can silt it up the forum and I dont believe you are one of them.

 

[Atlas]

I heard the number 2000ish sold units for the Disco.
And i see them everywhere.

 

[MeRodent]

Keep in mind that the initial market for any rebreather is the trainer. In the case of rCCR's (both the mk6 and the explorer) they are being sold to recreational dive stores rather than CCR specific trainers. This means the initial target market is of a magnitude greater than the market for traditional (or technical) CCR trainers.

As such it does not surprise me that the total units claimed to be sold for the mk6 (as the only rCCR truly available) would be higher than the remaining technical CCR's. By the same token I'd suspect the uptake of technical CCR's has increased due to the increase in interest in CCR's brought about by divers seeing CCR's either in stores or on boats. I personally started looking seriously at CCR's after seeing a mk6 in the flesh. Only in my case I decided the rEvo made more sense as it would come with everything I needed now and in the future (and was available now, unlike some of the mk6 upgrades) without needing to dip my hand into my pockets (apart from training) simply to advance my diving - anyone negotiating with a partner understands how important that can be.

 

[Chris Brown]

I just gave my honest opinion of why I chose to get the explorer and not the mkvi. Seemed to me like I was answering the OPs question. Sorry you consider it a waste of time.


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Yeah, I was commenting in general. Unfortunately the majority of the members that post on anything to do with rCCR's on here are not interested in what the real situation is regarding training, demographics, reasons for accidents etc. They have already made their mind up and simply post to push that conclusion even further.

....despite NEVER having being trained on one

.....Often having never even seen one

---and definitely having never dived one.

Im actually undecided on rCCR. I try to keep an open mind and see how it develops. Just dont see any point in debating it on here anymore. Just like all the other MKVI instructors and divers who have taken their online community input elsewhere.

Shame.

Just like the majority of instructors. They wont post on forums either for similar reasons. It would be great if Phil Short, Jill Heinerth etc came on the boards and participated, but you cant blame them for not wanting to. Its even company policy for some manufacturers.

shame.

 

[Jeppe]

Keep in mind that the initial market for any rebreather is the trainer. In the case of rCCR's (both the mk6 and the explorer) they are being sold to recreational dive stores rather than CCR specific trainers. This means the initial target market is of a magnitude greater than the market for traditional (or technical) CCR trainers.

I am not so sure. Certainly some of the sales are related to dive centers, as rentals. But I dont think any store manager would invest thousands of dollars in a single unit just to have it on display. I do not see any difference here to any other breather. But just say that 50% of all units goes into indirect diving. That would still mean that there are 1000 units out to divers around the world. Not bad considering the short time it has been available on the market.