Enough bailout O2

[jcook]

Thanks for posting! it was a great lesson to learn... I think a lot of cave divers only plan enough for the exit and neglect deco gases... you rarely see Open water divers do that as the Deco is their exit...
Having dived with Gabe.. I believe he has the Bailout calcs nailed.
How hard is it to stage an 80Cuft Ally of O2 just inside Devil's? would probably add a hug margin of safety to your bailout calcs as from experience, you're almost garanteed to go into decent deco in that cave.

I just thought it would be good for people to think about. The sad thing is, I just had the same discussion a couple months back with a guy who this happened to also, he lost all his deco O2 though after having to bail. Of course in all my infinite wisdom, I thought I had plenty of O2 and I would be fine. I was wrong, plain and simple.

I am always going to bring an AL80 of O2 from now on. It's easy to bring it in with you, just make sure you hide it so some OW people don't remove it for you.

 

[tecdiverdude]

I am always going to bring an AL80 of O2 from now on. It's easy to bring it in with you, just make sure you hide it so some OW people don't remove it for you.

Stage it at 12m.. if its missing, look to the ceiling or for the diver Break dancing.....:dizzy:

 

[Nick Toussaint]

A Deco RB will probably be the easiest way to deal with massive extended deco due delays !

 

[Michael Thornton]

A Deco RB will probably be the easiest way to deal with massive extended deco due delays !

Interesting idea. Anyone staging an O2 breather as a deco bail out breather?

seems like less could go wrong with an OC bottle pressurized and turned off but an O2 breather could be smaller.

 

[Garth]

I'm curious to know whether 3hr dives for CCR cave are common in training? It sounds amazing and I assume your experience prior to this training included dives like this in non cave or cave without CCR?

I would also like to state that I have read the thread and realize the question came up a few times whether this was a training dive and I want to clarify that i know this was a training dive and i am asking something slightly different. I just want to get a feel for what type of dives I should expect if taking a CCR cave course.

Thank you in advance for replies,
Garth

 

[Michael Thornton]

I'm curious to know whether 3hr dives for CCR cave are common in training? It sounds amazing and I assume your experience prior to this training included dives like this in non cave or cave without CCR?

I would also like to state that I have read the thread and realize the question came up a few times whether this was a training dive and I want to clarify that i know this was a training dive and i am asking something slightly different. I just want to get a feel for what type of dives I should expect if taking a CCR cave course.

Thank you in advance for replies,
Garth

On a rebreather you log hours. So that's my minimum when teaching CCR Cave the dive will be at least an hour. Normally longer. Typically in an 8 (8 days including land drill day) day CCR Cave course we spend around 24-30 hours in the cave. I highly suggest a P-Valve in your drysuit and a comfortable bed because you normally sleep well. And normally 2 dives per day.

This is why it is my favorite class to teach. We do real dives and it is fun for the instructor as well.

 

[mike]

One thing I'm not sure I understand.

If you hadn't done the accelerated deco where you jumped up to 6m and onto O2, would you have had enough gas?

ie if you'd done a bunch of your deco on the 32% mix, then just the last stop on O2, would you have had enough O2?

If so - then I wouldn't say it was a failure of planning, rather it was just a failure of execution.

Mike

 

[lizardland]

Interesting idea. Anyone staging an O2 breather as a deco bail out breather?

seems like less could go wrong with an OC bottle pressurized and turned off but an O2 breather could be smaller.

That was how I got into rebreather diving. I could be self sufficient for backgas on open circuit when caving in the less well developed bits of France, less so for deco gas. A small oxygen rebreather seemed like a simple solution combined with open circuit diving. I used to leave a chest mount homebuild oxygen unit at 6m to swap to. Worked fine. I used plug a 0.85litre of air in to the adv to keep it pressurised, plug oxygen in when I got there, flush it and do the deco. I'll have to see if I can find some pics although it was nothing impressive.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[kwinter]

I did a 3:30 dive during my CCR cave training. But that was because I missed a jump and swam off the end of the line. Finally got it sorted out, but valuable lesson learned.

Jordan, I just came across the thread and have a few questions. Do you not use something like V-Planner for bailout planning? The cave bailout option is good, even though the max RMV is 2.0. And note to Gabe, you can exceed that very easily in a CO2 hit. But it only uses the 2.0 as your RMV until the first deco stop because the assumption is that your rate will be under better control by then.

If you carry onboard dual O2, what is connected to wing inflation? If it is the onboard through the manifold, then adding a simple Octo Plus inflator would give you access to the onboard O2 as bailout.

Most importantly, why didn't you consider SCR? It would have effectively tripled your O2 bailout without much drop in PO2.

Just curious.

Ken

 

[lizardland]

Most importantly, why didn't you consider SCR? It would have effectively tripled your O2 bailout without much drop in PO2.

Just curious.

Ken

I knew someone who was playing with a scrubberless oxygen rebreather for emergency deco. It was basically a bag with a pendulum mouthpiece and a drysuit inflator connected to the oxygen supply. He ran it 2:1 or 3:1 scr i.e. dumped the loop on every second or third breath and felt the co2 was not overly noticeable over a long period.



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[Chris Brown]

I dont get it. If it was a training dive why didnt you just go back on the loop instead of draining everyones tanks? Or did you have a real bail on a training dive? Sorry if Im missing something obvious

Yeah, the fast bail option looks to me to be for ascents nor lateral egress. Is there anything in the manual about that?

You are saying you dont recommend it, but you had done quite a long dive in a cave vs drop descent, float around a wreck and float up (less exertion). It wouldnt necessarily get someone bent if they had done say 20 minutes at 200' on an ocean dive.

It could be horses for courses.

 

[Nick Toussaint]

Interesting idea. Anyone staging an O2 breather as a deco bail out breather?

seems like less could go wrong with an OC bottle pressurized and turned off but an O2 breather could be smaller.

Hi Michael
I use a Sweet Deco a dedicated Deco RB.

Watch out for roof hanging dudes !
:wiggle:


I agree up to 20-30 minutes on O2, an OC bottle is suitable for single dive,
cold water, longer deco, multiple dives, multiple deco due sumps, benefit more.
I use it sometimes even after OC dives.

more info link :
whitearrow.eu/rebreathers/wa_sd_v_2__smm

 

[Chris Brown]

sweet!

 

[jcook]

I dont get it. If it was a training dive why didnt you just go back on the loop instead of draining everyones tanks? Or did you have a real bail on a training dive? Sorry if Im missing something obvious

Yeah, the fast bail option looks to me to be for ascents nor lateral egress. Is there anything in the manual about that?

You are saying you dont recommend it, but you had done quite a long dive in a cave vs drop descent, float around a wreck and float up (less exertion). It wouldnt necessarily get someone bent if they had done say 20 minutes at 200' on an ocean dive.

It could be horses for courses.

Chris,

Sorry for the late reply, I didn't see people had dug this thread up. I was not allowed to go back on the loop, since I had to do a full bailout to pass the class. If an emergency arose, I am sure I would've been allowed to go back on my loop.

I only used about 20-30 Bars out of each 12L bailout tank on my exit, so I had plenty of 32% (about 220 bar left) I could've deco-ed on. I just wanted out of the water as quickly as possible since I had a thin undergarment on and was shivering pretty badly for the whole time I was on deco.

Ya I just meant I wouldn't recommend it for cave diving, I think it would be good for boat diving.

 

[jcook]

One thing I'm not sure I understand.

If you hadn't done the accelerated deco where you jumped up to 6m and onto O2, would you have had enough gas?

ie if you'd done a bunch of your deco on the 32% mix, then just the last stop on O2, would you have had enough O2?

If so - then I wouldn't say it was a failure of planning, rather it was just a failure of execution.

Mike

In short, yes I probably would've had enough O2 if I did the majority of my deco on the 32%. What happened is that I saw there was a short amount of deco on my computer, so I just went right to 6m and I actually had enough O2 for what my X1 said originally. It is what I switched from the Fast Bailout to normal bailout is when my deco was extended.

It was a combination of both, plus I wasn't paying attention to which bailout plan I selected on my X1.

 

[jcook]

I did a 3:30 dive during my CCR cave training. But that was because I missed a jump and swam off the end of the line. Finally got it sorted out, but valuable lesson learned.

Jordan, I just came across the thread and have a few questions. Do you not use something like V-Planner for bailout planning? The cave bailout option is good, even though the max RMV is 2.0. And note to Gabe, you can exceed that very easily in a CO2 hit. But it only uses the 2.0 as your RMV until the first deco stop because the assumption is that your rate will be under better control by then.

If you carry onboard dual O2, what is connected to wing inflation? If it is the onboard through the manifold, then adding a simple Octo Plus inflator would give you access to the onboard O2 as bailout.

Most importantly, why didn't you consider SCR? It would have effectively tripled your O2 bailout without much drop in PO2.

Just curious.

Ken

Ken,

I don't have anything from my rebreather connected to my wing inflation. All my inflation comes from my bailout bottles, one for wing and one for suit. All of my O2 is now accessible though my BOV. If you want to take a look at my setup, here you go.

http://www.ccrexplorers.com/showthread.php?t=15265

I couldn't do SCR since it was part of the class to do a full bailout.