weighting bail-out bottles

zirk

zirk

New Member
Just courious.. how many actually add enough weight to compensate for the worst scenario of bailing out and breathing both lean and rich tanks down to almost nothing.I understand that one will usually need more rich gsa than lean in a bail out situation so no need to go into that. I'm just courious about the thought process of compensating for almost empty bail outs. I have Al 72's for my bail out. The swing is almost 10 pounds for both. An anchor line is not always available as we do some hot drops here in Fla.

Z
 
I weight for not carrying stages, with the regs on I have found most cylinders will stay a little negative, although I have never really emptied one fully.

If I was at 6m overly bouyant cylinders were annoying me on a shot line I'd clip them off, if I was free floating under a DSMB I'd send any tri-mix ones up the line, just keep the ones I can use.

Actually I have had one empty once, I don't recall it being an issue, other than the annoyance that it was full of tri-mix and emptied due to a hose failure so I was very pissed off.
 
Same as Iain3, I weight for no bottles at all.

Buoyant tanks are not a problem on a lazy or a trapeze, just clip them off. Hanging under a bag, send empties up the DSMB line.
 
I also weight for no bailout. If things get ugly, I'll send the tanks up the line, hand them off to my buddy, or if needs be drop them.
 
I weight for bailout, as rarely do I have the choice to just unclip and send them off somewhere.

I havent used anything past 40's yet, but I use an additional 2 pounds per 40 I carry.
 
Randy Thornton said:
I also weight for no bailout. If things get ugly, I'll send the tanks up the line, hand them off to my buddy, or if needs be drop them.
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Something to bear in mind. I have just read through a fatal accident report in which the diver had a problem as they descended the shot-line and the shot line came down with them, which meant they got entangled, their buddy was unable to help and they were recovered 4 days later.

When they assessed the weighting, the only spare buoyancy available to them was their drysuit as their BCD had run out of lift with the configuration they were using.

Bear in mind that you might not have someone to hand off the stages to if you have an issue, or not be able to hand them off in a timely fashion before things go very wrong. If you dive solo, be doubly aware of what your BCD can lift. Furthermore, if someone comes to try and lift you, they may not be able to as they need additional lift.

No real right or wrong answer because you never hope to use the bailout cylinders and therefore you are always carrying additional weight, but conversely when you have to bail, you don't want to be floaty...Just understand what the limits of your kit is when it comes to lift.

Regards
 
GLOC said:
Something to bear in mind. I have just read through a fatal accident report in which the diver had a problem as they descended the shot-line and the shot line came down with them, which meant they got entangled, their buddy was unable to help and they were recovered 4 days later.
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Sad tale, but this isn't just a weighting issue. If a shot buoy implodes cause a few divers could drag it under, the fault lies in the choice of buoy.

I've seen a buoy get dragged under when the shot's been deployed on a number of occasions when the current's still running - they've always come back up as slack's approached.
 
GLOC said:
Bear in mind that you might not have someone to hand off the stages to if you have an issue, or not be able to hand them off in a timely fashion before things go very wrong. If you dive solo, be doubly aware of what your BCD can lift. Furthermore, if someone comes to try and lift you, they may not be able to as they need additional lift.
Regards
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Understood. This is precisely why I mentioned that if push comes to shove, I'll drop my used bailout tanks. They are not so important to me that I would risk getting bent over trying to hold on to them!
 
Randy Thornton said:
Understood. This is precisely why I mentioned that if push comes to shove, I'll drop my used bailout tanks. They are not so important to me that I would risk getting bent over trying to hold on to them!
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The problem is not just letting them go when they are empty. It is holding on to them when they are still half full and you still need them. Carrying a couple of extra pounds to compensate for a buoyant half-empty cylinder is just smart planning in my view. Steel BO bottles pose a different issue since you would become more buoyant if you drop your empties.
 
kwinter said:
The problem is not just letting them go when they are empty. It is holding on to them when they are still half full and you still need them. Carrying a couple of extra pounds to compensate for a buoyant half-empty cylinder is just smart planning in my view. Steel BO bottles pose a different issue since you would become more buoyant if you drop your empties.
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Ken, you are absolutely correct. I probably misspoke when I said that I weight without bailout considered. That is not exactly the case. I am actually slightly negative and most certainly have enough weight to offset each individual bottle that becomes positive. (I have done bailouts as a drill from depth several times and know for a surety that I can hold a deco stop in open water without an up-line.)

That said, I have absolutely no hesitation in dropping a bottle if needs be. Getting bent is much more expensive than replacing a bottle and reg! :wiggle:
 
Randy Thornton said:
That said, I have absolutely no hesitation in dropping a bottle if needs be. Getting bent is much more expensive than replacing a bottle and reg! :wiggle:
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Even better. Take off the reg and let go of the bottle. The weight of the reg will help keep you neutral or negative, and the bottle will float to the surface so it won't be lost. A win-win.
 
kwinter said:
Even better. Take off the reg and let go of the bottle. The weight of the reg will help keep you neutral or negative, and the bottle will float to the surface so it won't be lost. A win-win.
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Great idea! I had actually never thought of that!
 
This is why I hate loaning out BO regs. Last time CCR Josh used mine it ended up on the bottom of the ocean off the coast of Jersey.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
kwinter said:
The problem is not just letting them go when they are empty. It is holding on to them when they are still half full and you still need them. Carrying a couple of extra pounds to compensate for a buoyant half-empty cylinder is just smart planning in my view.
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I've never had an issue, the worst I have seen is the butt end floating up and the reg end sinking. If I was considering additional weight I would definately be attaching it permenantly to the cylinder, not to myself. That way when the cylinder is gone I am still correctly weighted, and anyone I hand it off too isn't stuck with bouyancy problems.
 
Iain3 said:
I've never had an issue, the worst I have seen is the butt end floating up and the reg end sinking. If I was considering additional weight I would definately be attaching it permenantly to the cylinder, not to myself. That way when the cylinder is gone I am still correctly weighted, and anyone I hand it off too isn't stuck with bouyancy problems.
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Not permanent, but I use mini cam straps on the bottom of all my aluminum bailouts. 2 pounds on a 40 and 3 pounds on an 80. Boat crew hates picking them up though.
 
I setup my weighting with no bailout.
Correctly selecting the right configurations of tanks and gases along with the right regulators, the cylinders should be slightly negative when full and only slightly if at all positive when empty.
I often hear of people saying that empty Trimix cylinders are much more positive... I ask, tell me how an empty cylinder that had helium is more positive than an empty cylinder that had air in it?
An al80 luxfer with 50% and a small first stage will be quite negative at 200bar and neutral at about 100-120 bar... only slightly positive empty.
an al80 luxfer of 18/45 on the other hand is slightly negative at 200 bar, neutral at 150 and becomes slightly bouyant at 100 bar, but plateus at about 70-80 bar.Luckily, you still are offset at this stage by the very negative 50% you still havent used yet, so once you switch to the 50% and start depleting it, if you begin to have trouble with weighting, you clip the used trimix cylinder to the shot or float a bag and send it up the line...
I dont see an issue really, if you are that worried about the cylinders becoming bouyant, try using different brands of cylinders to macth their bouyancy characteristics and different types of first stages...
 
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you make the assumption everyone can get rid of their tanks, not everyone can.

If you have the option of clipping a tank off or sending it up the line, then great, but if you don't, you need to carry the swing weight or dump the tank.
 
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