HH: Worth Considering

w ripley

w ripley

New Member
I envy people who say:

They never had a drysuit leak,
They never had a reg fail,
They never had their electronics or lights fail,
They never had an issue with their rebreather.

Probably because I'm hard on my equipment, that sort of luck has passed me by, or as some would say, "I've made my own luck." But given the way I dive, I'm pretty happy with my gear, especially my Hammerhead.

It's proven to:
Be a robust machine, in that I can bang it up hard in a rocky tunnel - many, many times on the same dive - and it keeps going,
Have a scrubber I personally know will go 11 hours,
Have electronic & deco redundancy I can count on, even if one handset does go out,
Have a visual/vibrating DIVA that seriously alerts if I'm on the threshold of being hypoxic/hyperoxic (+ auto adds O2 if hypoxic),
Have strong support from its builder, Juergensen Marine.

From time-to-time I read a thread where someone bashes this or that about the HH, and agree that as a machine it's not perfect. Still, it's the unit I'm putting on my back when I'm about to jump in for a 5-7+ hour dive. Sure I'm going to be watching it, but going in I have the confidence that I can count on it to get me safely out of the water. That's about all I can ask for from these things we call rebreathers.

The HH may not be the right unit for you and the way you dive, but if you like long dives & are hard on your gear like me, then it should be on your list of ones to consider. Just saying.
 
w ripley said:
I envy people who say:

They never had a drysuit leak,
They never had a reg fail,
They never had their electronics or lights fail,
They never had an issue with their rebreather.

Probably because I'm hard on my equipment, that sort of luck has passed me by, or as some would say, "I've made my own luck." But given the way I dive, I'm pretty happy with my gear, especially my Hammerhead.

It's proven to:
Be a robust machine, in that I can bang it up hard in a rocky tunnel - many, many times on the same dive - and it keeps going,
Have a scrubber I personally know will go 11 hours,
Have electronic & deco redundancy I can count on, even if one handset does go out,
Have a visual/vibrating DIVA that seriously alerts if I'm on the threshold of being hypoxic/hyperoxic (+ auto adds O2 if hypoxic),
Have strong support from its builder, Juergensen Marine.

From time-to-time I read a thread where someone bashes this or that about the HH, and agree that as a machine it's not perfect. Still, it's the unit I'm putting on my back when I'm about to jump in for a 5-7+ hour dive. Sure I'm going to be watching it, but going in I have the confidence that I can count on it to get me safely out of the water. That's about all I can ask for from these things we call rebreathers.

The HH may not be the right unit for you and the way you dive, but if you like long dives & are hard on your gear like me, then it should be on your list of ones to consider. Just saying.
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+1. I love my hammerhead electronics on my classic. Trading up to HH ccr next year.
 
Yea, I love my Inspo but once I retire...and have some free cash...I'm almost certainly going to buy into a HH Extreme. I'm envious that you have one now!
 
I just won a hammerhead extreme in a raffle and will be sure to do a writeup following my training dec 11th. I can't say I deserve such an honor from my diving career but I sure am happy to start my rebreather experience. I have a lot of learning ahead of me and I thank all of the forum members for providing such a wealth of information to make a start.
This thread is getting me excited to see my new Hammerhead!!



Sent from my She-er-water Per-redator!
 
Garth said:
I just won a hammerhead extreme in a raffle and will be sure to do a writeup following my training dec 11th. I can't say I deserve such an honor from my diving career but I sure am happy to start my rebreather experience. I have a lot of learning ahead of me and I thank all of the forum members for providing such a wealth of information to make a start.
This thread is getting me excited to see my new Hammerhead!!



Sent from my She-er-water Per-redator!
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You have no idea how jealous I am of you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Absolutely. Without a doubt I will post picks and writeup my experience. I have a feeling I have a lot to learn...


Sent from my She-er-water Per-redator!
 
My three (or was it four?) HH heads for the Inspo classic were the most unreliable pieces of crap i have ever used for diving (even worse than a buddy pocket reel and thats saying something) but dispite this, dispite them trying to kill me and dispite getting angry and selling them for a non electronic KISS, i still have a massive soft spot for HH units.

And Kevin to be honest.


Thers something about his understanding of wat you want from a unit in terms of functionality, that set his stuff apart from the rest.

Massivly so before the Inspo Vision came out (IMHO copying some of his ideas)

Now days others have caught up but in its day the inline Deco with adjustable (even mid dive) GF deco, a DIVA HUD and a passive redundent secondary, was realy forward thinking.

And the head design for cell mounting and access with the bannana plug loom, was fantastic.


Kevin throughout it all was suportive and reacted well to me. i know others havent had this experiance, but to me he was great even if he took the piss out of me sometimes with acusations of drilling holes in my hand sets (I baught them S/H like that)

If hes actualy pulled of the big one and built reliable electronics into his design, then i have no doubt it would be a unit to lust after.

ATB

Mark
 
Mark, this is my 3rd also.

My first was a Copis Meg that Kevin added the Rev C handsets (2007), my 2nd was the Classic Head with Rev C handsets (2008), my 3rd & current is the Extreme Head with Rev D handsets (2011). That's almost 6 years of constant HH use.

I've had issues, as you & a number of friends have - I know more who haven't had the 1st problem, too - but these issues do get worked out. I also know JM has learned a lot and it's reflected in its new products.

Just saying that it's a good unit and very worthy of consideration if you're looking for a solid machine that will let you stay down for a long time.
 
w ripley said:
Just saying that it's a good unit and very worthy of consideration if you're looking for a solid machine that will let you stay down for a long time.
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With all due respect, and I mean that most sincerely: Why would anyone risk "their" unit being the one that was built on Friday, when other options are available for controllers that have a nearly perfect track record? I've *never* gotten a working piece of electronics from the HH table, and that's not because I didn't try... for a decade. None of it worked. Some others did... some people have had no trouble, and some love them. But... many others have not been so lucky. Frankly, if I had had to have gotten THREE before getting one that worked, I'd be unhappy, not cheerleading for them. In fact I had more than three different attempts to get a "good one" and I finally gave up.


The chassis is fine, albeit being essentially a Czech copy of a Meg, with "Improvements".

It would be a LOT better rig if it had a Shearwater controller installed.



< waiting for predictable responses from "those who sell these things", and then the anticipated reply by DSix, who will wade in with his further tales of HH woe >


Sigh.....


Dave

(Who remains about $20K poorer after buying HH/JM stuff over the years).


.
 
Dave Sutton said:
With all due respect, and I mean that most sincerely: Why would anyone risk "their" unit being the one that was built on Friday, when other options are available for controllers that have a nearly perfect track record? I've *never* gotten a working piece of electronics from the HH table, and that's not because I didn't try... for a decade. None of it worked. Some others did... some people have had no trouble, and some love them. But... many others have not been so lucky. Frankly, if I had had to have gotten THREE before getting one that worked, I'd be unhappy, not cheerleading for them. In fact I had more than three different attempts to get a "good one" and I finally gave up.


The chassis is fine, albeit being essentially a Czech copy of a Meg, with "Improvements".

It would be a LOT better rig if it had a Shearwater controller installed.



< waiting for predictable responses from "those who sell these things", and then the anticipated reply by DSix, who will wade in with his further tales of HH woe >


Sigh.....


Dave

(Who remains about $20K poorer after buying HH/JM stuff over the years).


.
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Sorry Dave, but I am getting tired of wasting my breathe on anything hammerhead. Kevin did have some very state of the art thinking behind his electronics, but as far as I am concerned, he is just playing "Catch Up" to Shearwater with his new stuff.
 
DSix36 said:
Sorry Dave, but I am getting tired of wasting my breathe on anything hammerhead. Kevin did have some very state of the art thinking behind his electronics, but as far as I am concerned, he is just playing "Catch Up" to Shearwater with his new stuff.
Click to expand...

Be fair.

His units were doing what a Shearwater did in 2011 back in 2004.

Diferance is the Shearweater was prety reliable streight out of the box.

Not so in the origional Shearwater Meg design in 2005 which had big problems of much disputed origen.

ATB

Mark
 
crappy electronics?

Crappy electronics? If that's what you're looking for then look no further than KISS. The standard handsets that came with that unit were the diabolical. And they were ridiculously expensive for what they were.

Everyone relates to their own experiences.

I have had nothing but faultless service and responsiveness from the JM team so I'll stick with them. I don't care where the HH is made (as long as it isn't China, North or South Korea or Japan). I see people like Paco and Stanislav using Hammerhead units in some fairly extreme dives and that is good enough for me - who is never, as long as my arse points downwards, going to go to those extremes.

The combination of HH head on classic inspo is to me, the next best thing to having a HH CCR in terms of availability of parts, ease of maintenance, serviceability, MTBF, etc.

The same goes for VR - I've had nothing but faultless service from those guys as well, so I will stick to my trusty VR3s until they finally give up the ghost and then I'll buy VRx's.

I am not a groupie person - I don't follow the latest and greatest crowds. I am only interested in using proven kit that works and that is what I have got.
 
I can't fault anyone who has had a bad experience with anything for speaking poorly about it. I know I would.

FWIW, my movement thru my HHs was really upgrading, not product-issue driven. My HammerMeg worked fine, but I wanted the bigger - as Dave points out - Czech version, the HH. (Basically Jakub - Golem Gear - builds the major components in is native country & JM adds the electronics and puts everything together.) Then when the Extreme Head & Rev D handsets came out, I traded in my Classic with the Rev Cs. It was a good decision, IMO, as the Rev Ds offer programming & type size amenities that work for me. JM also gave a pretty good trade-in deal, although JM's new policy is not to transfer Rev C deco software to the Rev Ds, so that was an unexpected cost.

From my observations JM is at that point, as a company, where its demand seems to be greater than its ability to always supply in a timely fashion. Most companies go thru that curve, and I'm sure JM will come out better able to meet its demands (service & products). It's just tough for the customers, waiting for the company as it learns to grow.

Dave, I sensed you weren't a big JM fan when I asked for a HH forum, and now I understand why. Don't blame you one bit. But, today it has a good product and I stand by my original post.

Maybe the Shearwater is a better solution for some? All I know is that I've got a couple hundred hours on my Rev Ds and they're working fine.
 
Mark Chase said:
Be fair.

His units were doing what a Shearwater did in 2011 back in 2004.
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Well.... they pretended to... :sigh:

Testing consisted of sending them out to paying customers to see what happened. They failed. Send out more. They failed too. Send out more. Maybe 50% failed. Send out even more and change things around. Tell your customers to deliberately munger up the threads on the handsets so that they make a connection to ground and hope they work. Move to Delrin handsets and then tell customers to add a wad of chewing gum to hold the display securely into the board to keep it working. Continue this "upgrade path" for a decade (literally) and now we have "Rev D" that works? :crossfing

Uhh...

Pay yer money and take yer chances. Or win one! (congrats on that to Garth, BTW... you'll hopefully get one made on Weds when all the elves are sober).



w ripley said:
Dave, I sensed you weren't a big JM fan when I asked for a HH forum, and now I understand why. Don't blame you one bit. But, today it has a good product and I stand by my original post.
Click to expand...


Dunno why you sensed that, and the forum was created the same day. I just don't see the product as being one that is mainstream "today" as far as market share, based on the numbers of units I see in the field. I saw two dozen Megs on the boat last year, a dozen each of rEvo and Inspiration, two Optimas, one Topaz, and zero HH's. In any event, what counts is that you are alive and happy to use what you find works for you.




Dave


.
 
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Mark Chase said:
Be fair.

His units were doing what a Shearwater did in 2011 back in 2004.

Diferance is the Shearweater was prety reliable streight out of the box.

Not so in the origional Shearwater Meg design in 2005 which had big problems of much disputed origen.

ATB

Mark
Click to expand...

Be Fair? Really?

I am being about as fair and open minded as I can be be considering my experience with being bent over and cornholed by Kevin.

I think his DIVA is awesome and should be on all units, of course it needs to be powered by something other than hh electronics to be reliable enough for me.

The hh rebreather seems to be a well thought out unit and I would prefer it over a meg if the electronics were ripped out and replaced with anything else, including a damn bottom timer.

The new revision D seem to be a step in the right direction and have been having good success so far.

I realize that kevin was an inovator with his stuff, but his time has gone by the wayside. When he can not and will not acknowledge that pipe threads into the edge of Delrin is a completely worthless design - and will not stand behind his own f**kups because of it, it is time for him to hang up his business and jump in front of a truck. I already know first hand just how low and shit*y his business ethics can be. His electronics can't be much better.

OK, my rant is over until someone gets me started again.

And if anyone cares, my Shearwater has not been perfect either, but I have never had to bench my rebreather waiting for repairs either like the multiple times with hh crap.
 
Predictable responses from a couple of naysayers. Juergensen Marine has been a trendsetter in electronics for CCRs for years and is still leading the pack with others attempting to play catch up even now. I have only one thing to say with regards to the quality issue - Just look at the big time dives that are being done on which units and you will see that Juergensen makes the stuff that MANY big time divers are doing big time dives on. They choose these units because the quality is second to none and the capabilities far outreach the competition.

Nuff said.

(by way of full disclosure, I sell and teach on Hammerheads as well as multiple other units.)

I don't bash other units because there are lots of great CCR designs and manufacturers. As with all people who make it a crusade to crucify a specific manufacturer's goods, there is usually a back story involved and one which they usually don't want to be made public.

That said, to each his own. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Be happy with what you dive. If you're not happy with it, make a change. Life is too short to be bitter over a piece of equipment! Move on and learn to enjoy this sport which should put a smile on your face!

Safe diving to all!
 
Dave

IMHO I sense a change in the Ethos standards in this thread. Maybe your too close to the issue to see it. Then again maybe I am wrong but thought it worth throwing out for consideration.

John
 
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