Agency?

P

Paul S

New Member
First post, so "Hello everyone!" (although I posted occasionally on the other board)

I've been looking at training for a while, and hopefully once work allows me a week or two of time, I'll take the plunge.

When choosing training, obviously type of unit is highest on my criteria list. My instructor is next, but I've noticed that many instructors will teach you under one of several different agencies.

Given a choice is there any advantage in one agency over another?

  • Is one more recognised over another?
  • Does one make it easier to do crossovers (or something else later in your CCR life?)
  • Training materials quality?

Any reason at all to express a preference?
 
Can I be first to say...


.... Don't choose the agency, choose the instructor....

I chose my instructor because he wrote the training manual, has dived the unit I was training on to 145M and because he lives down the road....

'Crossovers' don't really apply at this level they way they do with rec training...
 
There's a lot of units, and a lot of information on them on these forums.

What type of diving are you going to be doing and what's the budget?

Matt.
 
Bythesea said:
Courses are unit specific as I understand it...
Click to expand...

MOD1's are unit specific. MOD2 onwards tends to be more generalistic about the dive, the gas, the prepoaration, etc, and probably doesn't need to be unit specific.

Is there an agency that does MOD2+ without specifying the unit? So if you are a MOD3 Inpso diver you can do your JJ MOD1/crossover course, dive and get the experience of the unit, then when ready do the dives you used to do on the JJ without shelling out 1000 pounds on courses you already did to learn stuff you already know to keep the insurance people happy.
 
Actually I just checked my PSAI MOD2 card.

I am a "CCR Expedition Mixed GAS Diver". I was "Taught Mixed Gas Diving on an Inspiration Classic ECCR....."

It says I was taught on a Classic, it doesn't say I can only dive on a Classic. I am qualified to dive 100m (taught on a Classic), I am qualified to dive a Classic and a JJ (MOD1 corssover on JJ). Where do I stand if I want to do a 100m dive on a JJ. I have done the courses and know the theory, do I need to pay for the extra MODs just to cover my back?
 
Iain3 said:
Where do I stand if I want to do a 100m dive on a JJ. I have done the courses and know the theory, do I need to pay for the extra MODs just to cover my back?
Click to expand...

I dont know... but firstly you need to find a JJ .... maybe kitty will sell u his
 
So, bundling some answer up...

What type of diving are you going to be doing and what's the budget?
Click to expand...

On OC I'm a wrecker, and imagine it'd be much the same CCR. I'm 90% sure then when I do go for it, it'll be on a rEvo, and a have a couple of instructors in mind that I have personal recommendations for. I just need to work out when I can do it, arrange dates, and get my "ducks in a row" before I do it.

None of that nails down the agency (it narrows it down, sure). So the question was just, do I care or are all tickets the same?

Pick your instructor and go with their recommendations.
Click to expand...

That pretty much what I had in mind, but wondered if there'd be any reason for me to go "Well, I'd rather you signed me off under this other agency you're also associated with"

It says I was taught on a Classic, it doesn't say I can only dive on a Classic. I am qualified to dive 100m (taught on a Classic), I am qualified to dive a Classic and a JJ (MOD1 corssover on JJ). Where do I stand if I want to do a 100m dive on a JJ. I have done the courses and know the theory, do I need to pay for the extra MODs just to cover my back?
Click to expand...

This is pretty much where I was going with the crossover question.
 
Iain3 said:
It says I was taught on a Classic,... I am qualified to dive 100m (taught on a Classic), I am qualified to dive a Classic and a JJ (MOD1 corssover on JJ). Where do I stand if I want to do a 100m dive on a JJ. I have done the courses and know the theory, do I need to pay for the extra MODs just to cover my back?
Click to expand...

This looks like the same argument for OC Gas tickets versus CCR tickets. A Trimix OC + CCR Mod 1 is not equal to CCR Mod 3. Thinking therefore follows that Inspo Mod 3 + JJ Mod 1 does not make JJ Mod 3.

I agree it is ludicrous and that the user-course should be separate but that's not how I see the "rules" being applied.

Matt.
 
Paul S said:
None of that nails down the agency (it narrows it down, sure). So the question was just, do I care or are all tickets the same?
Click to expand...

For the case you describe any-old ticket will do. There is no need to look ahead at other course prerequisite if you only intend to make recreational open ocean dives.

That pretty much what I had in mind, but wondered if there'd be any reason for me to go "Well, I'd rather you signed me off under this other agency you're also associated with"
Click to expand...

Not that I know of. When I select I look at the highest cert. I plan to ever get and then check the route out with each agency. I "crossed" to TDI when I moved to CCR.

Matt.
 
From what I have been able to work out - some units / agencies require you to do the whole MOD1 course again on the new unit.

Dave T has posted on this forum that for the JJ a 'one day, here is what's different with the JJ' course is suggested (required?) for people already MOD1 qualified.

Seems like a sensible / value for money approach to me.

I think the 'what agency / do I need to re-do MOD1 for new unit or just a familiarisation course' is actually a question you'll need to ask if/when you move to another unit rather than asking / preparing for while moving into CCR to start with.

Cheers.
 
INSPIRATION is on mine too (TDI), there is no separate user course for Vision/Classic AFAIK.

I think it is for sure that if you have an accident with a unit you do not hold a depth card for you are paying for that accident yourself.

Matt.
 
jptaylor9 said:
DAN Europe don't require any qualifications, I have checked with them. Are required if dive guide, instructor etc....

Well down to 130m your OK!
Click to expand...

Really? What do PSAI say? I don't think what DAN say is relevant, I'd say (guess) that if you have an accident they will ask your cert. agency if you behaved responsibly:

DAN Sports Policy said:
Material fact means facts about you or your activities that are likely to influence us in accepting your insurance. This includes ... your diving activities where these are technical or not within the safe practices published by reputable diving bodies. If you have any doubt as to whether a fact is ‘material’ you should tell us in writing by e-mail ...
Click to expand...

Take care with that one.

Matt.
 
jptaylor9 said:
Spoke to man from DAN at a dive show, basically said.... "doing some dives to 120m, my PSAI cert is 100m only, any issues if I get bent & need treatment in France?" I didn't want to guess, I wanted to know....

His reply, was no issues, they don't check certs, just need written permission if 130m+.
Click to expand...

Get it in writing. I'm surprised that he said that as the implication is that gas training and rebreather certs are not needed and a "Novice Diver" can bimble to 129m if they like! I do not doubt that you asked and that is what he said, I just wonder if International Diving Insurance Ltd agree or not.

Matt.
 
Can anyone point me to any unit other than the Po$$eidon that has depth specific skills? I agree with cross-overs, I agree with the idea of doing X hours on a unit before diving it in anger but I still don't see any change in skills needed to fly a unit v's another that changes with depth?
 
matthewoutram said:
This looks like the same argument for OC Gas tickets versus CCR tickets. A Trimix OC + CCR Mod 1 is not equal to CCR Mod 3. Thinking therefore follows that Inspo Mod 3 + JJ Mod 1 does not make JJ Mod 3.

I agree it is ludicrous and that the user-course should be separate but that's not how I see the "rules" being applied.

Matt.
Click to expand...

Not quite the same argument, OC tri-mix is a different game to CC tri-mix from a planning perspective, not that I ever bothered with OC mix. But from MOD2 up all rebreather courses should be almost exactly the same, differences are down to the instructor, not the unit.

It's like making someone re-sit all their maths exams everytime they buy a new calculator. Just teach them to use the calculator and accept that pythagorus hasn't changed.

I'm with DAN so not fussed really. I dive a N@90 head, not a Classic. No one taught me to dive it, no one qualified me on it, and I doubt I could find an instructor who could, but I think I am safer in the water with it than the Classic that I was trained on.
 
if you do a crossover with IART from say an inspo to a JJ you crossover at your highest level, Lets say you are trimix level 3 on an inspo and you cross to a jj, your crossover is at level 1 but once you have some hours on your JJ you can apply to IART for a level 3 cert, you just need to provide proof that you already did the level 3 (or whatever level is in question)

As far as I am concerned trimix diving on a ccr is not about teaching to use your rebreather its about teaching you to dive deep on your rebreather. If you dont know everything about your choosen RB by the time you get to trimix you should not be there in the first place

dive planning on ccr is different to dive planning on OC
the gas choice is different
the mindset is different
the bailout skills are different.( I know switching to OC is switching to OC but thats not what I mean)

is it worth doing a trimix ccr course if you are already and OC trimix diver!!!!
there are those that can and there are those that cant, you just need to know which one you are :borg:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top