Manual Add Quick Disconnects

[WakullaDivingCenter]

I'm looking into getting some male quick disconnects made to replace the ones on AP manual add valves.

I have not decided if I want to use a standard BC fitting or an omniswivel compatible design. More than likely Omniswivel.

Would you be interested in buying them if they were available? I have not got a price yet but I'm guessing about $18-20 each since it's a small run and they are plated.

 

[Dave Sutton]

For Omniswivel, no need to have them made, just buy Si Tech CEJN male nipples from any good drysuit repair place and screw them in. They are direct replacements.

Ed at Divers Cove in Essex CT would be my supplier.

Really, for manual add valves... Standard BC nipples would be the best. They should be off the shelf Si Tech parts as well?


Dave


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[zirk]

Is there a difference between the 9/16 quick disconnects I see from M&J and the CEJN quick disconnects. I'm working on plumbing up my Shrimp Bov. What if any is the difference between the two? Also I have my Mav with regular quick disconnects. I want to have my unit set up so ALL disconnects are the same. Will I have to machine the Mav or is there another option. Same with low pressure inflator. I did not realize the can of worms I would open when I ordered my shrimp. By the way if any of you are thinking of ordering one they are currently back ordered. I'm going into week 4 of waiting for delivery.

 

[jcook]

Really, for manual add valves... Standard BC nipples would be the best. They should be off the shelf Si Tech parts as well?

Because he liked how I set up my manual add valves with CEJN nipples. Plus almost all of us in cave country use Omniswivel QD's on our bottles.

 

[kwinter]

I'm not sure why zirk wants to have all QDs the same. MAV only needs low flow like a standard wing or drysuit QD. But BOV needs high flow like an Omniswivel or CEJN. Paying extra to put high flow QDs everywhere makes no sense to me.

Or did I misunderstand?

 

[Garth]

I'm not sure why zirk wants to have all QDs the same. MAV only needs low flow like a standard wing or drysuit QD. But BOV needs high flow like an Omniswivel or CEJN. Paying extra to put high flow QDs everywhere makes no sense to me.

Or did I misunderstand?

I think you understood him. I have LP inflators on all my manual adds but I found having omniswivel qc's on all my bailout tanks along with a LP hose solves that issue.

 

[zirk]

Take a look at Daves video on you tube about bailout, BOV's and their connections. It's very interesting. I want to configure my bail out/BOV as he has it laid out there. I see the logic behind it. So with my quick connects off my bail outs 9/16s. My block and low pressure inflators would also have to be that size. Just in case I wanted to hook them up. Does that make sense?

 

[Dave Sutton]

All these parts are off the shelf ones. Every inflator valve can be fitted with either BC, CEJN, or APV inflator stubs by simply buying the parts and threading them into the valve.

In any event, if you are cave diving or deep diving, if there are populations using CEJN and another population using BC connect, you best carry an adapter to make sure that you can share gas.

Omniswivel finally changed their dimension to make it 100% compatible with CEJN, I cannot help but think my continuous harping on them got them to change this. There are still old parts around so test-fitting every single hose to every single fitting is a life and death test you need to do.

The real screwy one is the Inspiration, which is really neither but which mimics BC close enough that sometimes they work... sometimes not... and you need to make sure before you really need to cross connect.

It's funny how things evolve... Jitka and I have gone back to using BC connects for our Megs, the only non-standard fitting is the large QD that we have on a stub hose on one stage bottle to let it be connected to the hose that feeds the BOV, and for that we are using QC-6. Every stage bottle has a BC compatable QD hose, and we each carry a 4 foot hose with male/female BC connects on them so we can extend our 02 manual add valve feed hose to serve the other diver, and can connect the two hoses together to make an 8 foot one for cave exit while sharing onboard 02. This is one reason we did not consider the COPIS Meg, BTW.... if you have a solenoid system you can surrender your 02 bypass valve feed hose to your buddy, snap on an extension, and never need to take it back while exiting the cave, or doing a retreat to the anchor line and subsequent deco while wreck diving. With a COPIS you need to take it back now and then. This strategy works equally well on Inspiration, etc. Not so well on rEvo, etc.


ave

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[WakullaDivingCenter]

For Omniswivel, no need to have them made, just buy Si Tech CEJN male nipples from any good drysuit repair place and screw them in. They are direct replacements.

Ed at Divers Cove in Essex CT would be my supplier.

Really, for manual add valves... Standard BC nipples would be the best. They should be off the shelf Si Tech parts as well?


Dave


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Unless the AP units have changed I don't think there is an off the shelf solution to this. I have lots of fittings and they have larger threads than AP manual add buttons. The thread is 9mmx1.75

In that photo you see 2 omniswivel brand plugs, a Si Tech, and at the bottom is the AP one.

 

[Dave Sutton]

Interesting....

What you show are (I think)

BC *manufacturered by Omniswivel* with 3/8-24 inlet

CEJN *manufactured by Omniswivel*, with 3/8-24 inlet

a BC *manufactured by Si Tech*, with 1/8 BSP inlet

NOT SHOWN is the Si Tech CEJN inlet with 1/8-BSP inlet, which you can order.

One "Mutt" from APV.


Don't confuse the standard (CEJN, BC, etc) with the manufacturer (Omniswivel, Si Tech, Joe-Blow in China, etc). And there are two (or three, looking at the APV part) inlet threads... 3/8-24UNF and 1/8 BSP.


Find a drysuit valve made by Apecs and pull the stub out and see if it's not the same as the Omniswivel inlet thread of 3/8-24 UNF? Looks like Si Tech is using 1/8 BSP inlet ports, which rings a bell from old Poseidon Unisuit days and the the threads used on old Poseidon regulators. 'I think" that the other drysuit type manual add valves use standard 3/8-24 UNF inlet threads, same as the first stage regulator supply port. Obviously APV uses something else.


The inlet thread of the APV... <scratches head>... I stand corrected.

Why don't you just swap out the manual add valves? If you put in Si Tech valves you can then order CEJN inlet stubs that will fit them. It's "the part you do not show" in your photos.



Dave

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[kwinter]

Take a look at Daves video on you tube about bailout, BOV's and their connections. It's very interesting. I want to configure my bail out/BOV as he has it laid out there. I see the logic behind it. So with my quick connects off my bail outs 9/16s. My block and low pressure inflators would also have to be that size. Just in case I wanted to hook them up. Does that make sense?

Not to me. Like Garth, I have both a high flow Omniswivel QD on a reg hose plus a standard QD on a LP inflator hose on each of my bailouts. MAVs are standard LP inflator QDs. My offboard dil plug in to my ball valve leading to the manifold is an Omniswivel, as is my BOV. You can accomplish the same thing without having an extra hose on your bailouts just by carrying an adapter, which I also have in my pocket. This allows you to use the reg hose with Omniswivel QD and attach to a standard LP inflator QD.

One important consideration for having the ability for standard QDs is that you might have to pass off your bailout bottle to another diver for him to plug into a MAV. There is a benefit to standardization.

 

[zirk]

ok so you have 2 low pressure hoses on your bailout tanks. One for the mav and low pressure inflator hose and could be used for anothers mav and so on Plus another hose with a larger QD?

 

[Dave Sutton]

Zirk,

What exactly are you trying to do
on exactly what rig
configured exactly how
diving where
in exactly what sort of team or interchangability environment?

BOV or Necklace regulator for yourself?

Define the mission and I can offer a solution for the mission.


Much of this is so specific that there's no one size fits all answer.


What's right for me deep wreck diving in the Great Lakes is different (believe it or not) from what is right for me for deep wreck diving in off NJ, and that is very different than what is right for me in cave country. What's right on the Meg is different than what is right on the rEvo, and on the rEvo it changes according to the partcular configuration of the rig itself.


Dave

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[WakullaDivingCenter]

Dave- the AP threads are 9mmx1.75, not the same as standard LP scuba and way smaller than the threads found on Si Tech.

Also, the threads are recessed into the valve, nothing common to the scuba world will fit. The wrench flats also will interfere with installing it do to the low profile of the valve.

Replacing the whole manual add valve assembly isn't easily possible either. AP stuff is as proprietary as they could possibly make it.

 

[zirk]

Ok here is what I'm trying to do Dave. I bought a BOV for my revolll And I'm trying to plumb it in and at the same time trying to to cover as many contingiencies as I can. I dive in Florida hitting the deeper wrecks. I have plans to go to some deeper wrecks so decided on the bov. I saw your video and liked the configuration and have been working on exactly how to do it. When to comes to these fittings and which one to use I'm not experienced.
So what Im doing is coming off the reg up the dill side of the unit where I have a 3 way port. One to the mav one to the low pressure inflator and the third to a Y with a shut off just before the connection. The other side of the Y the hose qoes tothe BOV. The single end of the Y will go to a quick disconnect with a check valve that will connect to my bail out. Your design really.
I have not purchased the connections and am doing research and asking questions. I was/am fascinated with the concept of using the reg as a gas block.

 

[Dave Sutton]

^^ to Zirk,

That will all work, it's the system that I developed and it works well. All of it is off the shelf stuff. I would use CEJN/Omniswivel at the connection between the offboard bottle and your BOV input, and I would use standard BC connections everywhere else. Stick a BC hose on your stages so you can be a good citizen to others. You do not need the CEJN on anything but your main bailout bottle, other bottles can just have regulators. Your main bailout regulator will end up with a CENJ feed hose (short), a BC feed hose tucked away for multi-purpose use, and a long hose regulator for a friend in need. Other bailout bottles can have standard length stage bottle regulators and a BC feed line on them. Carry a 5-7 foot Male/female BC compatable hose in a pocket so you can disconnect your onboard 02 feed hose that runs from your 02 to your offboard manual add valve system so you can plug in an extension hose to the end of it and pass it to a buddy so you can share your onboard 02 with him (and vice versa). With a real buddy you ought to each have a 4 foot long one and you can daisy-chain them to each other if you need to do so. This only works with a rEvo that has the 3 button manual add valve added.

Replacing the whole manual add valve assembly isn't easily possible either. AP stuff is as proprietary as they could possibly make it.

This is one reason why I don't work with them. Not worth the hassle.

:behead:

<sorry>.... :hail:


Awaiting flames... :flame:



Dave

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[WFO]

I hate that attitude from companies trying to make stuff "their own" to trap you. If I want to buy something from a company the incentive should be it is better than everyone else's product!

For anything else it turns out I am an obstinate git with access to a lathe and a TIG set and anything can fit anything else if you persuade it right!

One important consideration for having the ability for standard QDs is that you might have to pass off your bailout bottle to another diver for him to plug into a MAV. There is a benefit to standardization.

Nice but not critical. They could take a sniff off the bailouts 2nd stage and breath it into the loop, not a pretty solution but workable.

 

[jcook]

I think you understood him. I have LP inflators on all my manual adds but I found having omniswivel qc's on all my bailout tanks along with a LP hose solves that issue.

Why would you carry extra hoses on a bailout if it isn't needed? If for some reason your manifold dies (it happens when you are dragging you stuff though caves and cave crud gets into f-ing everything), you unplug the QD and plug it into a MAV so you can still get gas into the system. Simple.

Most of you guys (except Dave and the OP) are looking way too far into this.

 

[jcook]

Carry a 5-7 foot Male/female BC compatable hose in a pocket so you can disconnect your onboard 02 feed hose that runs from your 02 to your offboard manual add valve system so you can plug in an extension hose to the end of it and pass it to a buddy so you can share your onboard 02 with him (and vice versa). With a real buddy you ought to each have a 4 foot long one and you can daisy-chain them to each other if you need to do so. This only works with a rEvo that has the 3 button manual add valve added.

You can actually do the O2 daisy chain with a 2 port Y-block with a BC female QD on one end, then a 4 ft hose and a BC male nipple on the other. That way you can still use your O2 MAV and your buddy can access you O2 also.

Or you can just carry 2 O2 bottles and tell your friend tough shit, they should've carried an extra O2 bottle also. :sarcy:

 

[kwinter]

Why would you carry extra hoses on a bailout if it isn't needed? If for some reason your manifold dies (it happens when you are dragging you stuff though caves and cave crud gets into f-ing everything), you unplug the QD and plug it into a MAV so you can still get gas into the system. Simple.

Most of you guys (except Dave and the OP) are looking way too far into this.

At the risk of incurring the wrath of Jordan, I like being able to plug any gas I bring into the loop. An extra hose tucked away on a bottle causes no damage. The benefit I gain by being able to use the loop for SCR if needed to stretch bailout gas as long as the loop isn't compromised is worth the extra hose. Is it really necessary? No. As Dave suggested, only the deep bailout really requires the ability to be plugged in. But having that ability with my middle and rich gasses is a nice plus.

BTW, I am not a fan of disconnects of any type on the O2 side with my eCCR. It is way too easy to get even the tiniest bit of water ingress that will positively foul the solenoid.