Bail Out and BOV

GR7G5TER

GR7G5TER

New Member
Just after some people's opinions and thoughts.

I've read on the various forums that a few JJ diver have their bailout tank plumped straight into BOV.

for those doing this, how are you routing the hoses??

also what are peoples thoughts on Bail out plugged into BOV Vs Dil plugged into BOV. Pros & cons etc.

Cheers

The Gregster!
 
Well if you put an isolator going back to your on board dil to a y-block then have the off board connection and the hose running to your bov on the other side of the y-block its the best of both worlds.

You can use your on board with the bov or your off board just by sliding the isolator (and shutting off the valve on the off board if the ip is higher on that reg than the on board reg). Also you can run the off board into your wing by using the on board 1st stage as a manifold. Mine sits on my left chest strap by my inflator and then runs back up and around the back of my head to a 90 degree swivel on the bov. I also have a loop of bungee tied to the handle on my revo to keep it under control. It's got some other cool advantages also. I know these guys sell them pre made.

44c0fa9b-e78d-6bb8.jpg
 
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GR7G5TER said:
Just after some people's opinions and thoughts.

I've read on the various forums that a few JJ diver have their bailout tank plumped straight into BOV.

for those doing this, how are you routing the hoses??

also what are peoples thoughts on Bail out plugged into BOV Vs Dil plugged into BOV. Pros & cons etc.

Cheers

The Gregster!
Click to expand...

Try this thread: http://www.ccrexplorers.com/showthread.php?t=13732

Personally I'd either try the first-stage-as-manifold route or have the BOV on the Dil and bailout to OC reg.

The reason I suggest that is that I think (no concrete proof) that the WOB on a decent 2nd stage will be lower than any BOV - and that's what you want if you have a CO2 issue.

The 1st stage manifold idea seems to cover both angles at the cost of a bit more set-up/checking.

Matt.
 
GR7G5TER said:
Just after some people's opinions and thoughts.

I've read on the various forums that a few JJ diver have their bailout tank plumped straight into BOV.

for those doing this, how are you routing the hoses??

also what are peoples thoughts on Bail out plugged into BOV Vs Dil plugged into BOV. Pros & cons etc.

Cheers

The Gregster!
Click to expand...


Consider this:

Will you start every dive with 200 bar in the diluent bottle?

Even full its only 600 litres of gas. If you suffer severe hypercapnia at 40 meters you have seconds to get onto the bailout cylinder from the BOV. If you started the dive with 80 bar in the diluent bottle what do you do then?

Easiest way IMO is to have a quick connect nipple on the BOV and plumb it straight in to the bailout bottle. I used to have a Y block/swagelok QC6/flowstop/rats nest of hoses arrangement on my JJ but it made a nice simple piece of kit a complicated mess with a load of extra failure points.

With the right QC bits (The NickB method) and the right hose lengths you can even plug your O2 MAV feed into the BOV so you can access your inboard O2 open circuit should you wish to.
 
Hose routs from the baillout tank first stage, under two bungees on the tank then up between wing and backplate over sholder and down loop on to BOV via some snoopy loops on the loop.

Very simple and unobtrusive


I used to bail to onboard gas but folowing discussion with divers who have sufered large C02 hits I was told it took a long long time to get their breathing under control enough to switch regs
 
Adding 2p's worth of free opinion...

Mark Davies said:
Even full its only 600 litres of gas. If you suffer severe hypercapnia at 40 meters...
Click to expand...

... caused by CO2 retention then bailing to a BOV may make it worse not better.

you have seconds to get onto the bailout cylinder from the BOV. If you started the dive with 80 bar in the diluent bottle what do you do then?
Click to expand...

You've 1 minute to get to the bail-out tin before your arm is forced.

Matt.
 
Tmccar1 said:
Well if you put an isolator going back to your on board dil to a y-block then have the off board connection and the hose running to your bov on the other side of the y-block its the best of both worlds.

You can use your on board with the bov or your off board just by sliding the isolator (and shutting off the valve on the off board if the ip is higher on that reg than the on board reg). Also you can run the off board into your wing by using the on board 1st stage as a manifold. Mine sits on my left chest strap by my inflator and then runs back up and around the back of my head to a 90 degree swivel on the bov. I also have a loop of bungee tied to the handle on my revo to keep it under control. It's got some other cool advantages also. I know these guys sell them pre made.

44c0fa9b-e78d-6bb8.jpg
Click to expand...

It is an option. I also like the ability to use onboard dill for the BOV or offboard. My preferred set up is a supply line with a qc connected to a manifold and running over my left shoulder and down my left counter lung. I have added a supply line to my bail out tins. It gives the option of either plug in or no. On shallow dives above 40M I generally do not plug in the offboard but on deeper dives I do. I also only use the tank valve shut off to choose which gas is supplying my BOV.
Gabe
 
Mark Chase said:
Hose routs from the baillout tank first stage, under two bungees on the tank then up between wing and backplate over sholder and down loop on to BOV via some snoopy loops on the loop.

Very simple and unobtrusive


I used to bail to onboard gas but folowing discussion with divers who have sufered large C02 hits I was told it took a long long time to get their breathing under control enough to switch regs
Click to expand...
Thats a nice neat method Mark, how do you actually connect it when you are kitting up? is there a quick disconnect in the line?
 
ccrdave said:
Thats a nice neat method Mark, how do you actually connect it when you are kitting up? is there a quick disconnect in the line?
Click to expand...



No, I use a standard reg hose and just screw it on every time. I have had QD failures so i am no longer a fan.

I used to have a shut off in line but I abandoned that when I got the JJ as it wouldent fit.


When i first started out with a BOV I used QDs in line with the option to QD to the inboard dill for shalow diving.

Now i prefer the simple is best method


OLD QD systems


2005 Inspo experiment

QD on left to inboard QD on right (conected to BOV) to off board

GC3-1.jpg


GC2.jpg
 
ccrdave said:
Thats a nice neat method Mark, how do you actually connect it when you are kitting up? is there a quick disconnect in the line?
Click to expand...

That is similar to mine. Except I dont bother with the snoopy loops. I just leave it loose and it sits fine. CEJN quick connects on each end.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
 
Mark Chase said:
Hose routs from the baillout tank first stage, under two bungees on the tank then up between wing and backplate over sholder and down loop on to BOV via some snoopy loops on the loop.

Very simple and unobtrusive


I used to bail to onboard gas but folowing discussion with divers who have sufered large C02 hits I was told it took a long long time to get their breathing under control enough to switch regs
Click to expand...

Hi Mark

Neat solution....but wondering about quick connects near the 1st stage...

Do you not bother at all with inboard for bail out now? I only ask as going through the 'transition of fire' with our JJ's and now wondering whether to adopt 'plumbed straight to offboard for BOV/bailout', and just leave the inboard dil for CCR

Cheers

Jez
 
Do you shed your stages in the water and put them on a equipment line? If so, you need your BOV to have access to your onboard (and it better not be hypoxic). We learned this the hard way when a diver got her loop hose snagged by the ladder in a seaway, was "lifted outta the water" by her inhale hose (until it separated from the DSV), then she IMMEDIATELY lost positive buoyancy as her loop INSTANTLY flooded, and she had nothing *at all* to breathe. Just a DSV with the Atlantic Ocean feeding it.

This was not good.... she almost drowned, and I needed to do a "clothes on swim" to retrieve the situation.

This is why I designed the system that someone else posted with a "Dive Seekers" watermark on the photo. I built the systems from scratch, and then we figured out how to do it with Omniswivel fittings. I still like the ball valves I use better, but the one that Dive Seekers sells works.

Is this a time to re-re-re-post the talk I gave on the subject?



2010 Workshop | Dave Sutton - YouTube


Best,


Dave

.
 
My method was to add a connection to the diluent line before it gets to the ADV, BOV or wing. (first iteration is a swivel with the appropriate threads) Add a hose with a QC6, and there's my bailout connection to whatever I'm carrying.

Downside, I need to make sure my on-board / off-board valves are correctly on/off, but I do make a very concerted effort to have the same gas in both.

I'd add an image, but I'm away on a school camp all week... including 3 days/2 nights in the bush. :haddock:

cheers

Andy
 
Andy Del said:
My method was to add a connection to the diluent line before it gets to the ADV, BOV or wing. (first iteration is a swivel with the appropriate threads) Add a hose with a QC6, and there's my bailout connection to whatever I'm carrying.

Downside, I need to make sure my on-board / off-board valves are correctly on/off, but I do make a very concerted effort to have the same gas in both.

I'd add an image, but I'm away on a school camp all week... including 3 days/2 nights in the bush. :haddock:

cheers

Andy
Click to expand...

Andy I'd love to see a pic of what you are running now and hear how you have found your plug in DIL thus far. I am working through a solution which I will post shortly. But it's a prototype in my brain at the moment, nothing in concrete.
 
A large factor in moving to CCR for me was to reduce the weight of the kit I was carrying. I have done all my hours thus far on a very stock JJ with 3L cylinders valves down.

However as I move towards MOD2 and bigger dives, I feel that I need more gas available to me and more importantly available quickly through my BOV (which I am still waiting on!).

The solution was either bigger on board tanks or plugging in off board. I've watched Dave Sutton's talk a few times and he raises some good points, so this is what my current plan is (largely influenced by my dive buddy who knows far more about this stuff than I do - thanks Jase!)

I plan to use all 4 LP ports on the standard US4 dil first stage as my manifold and plug another hose into that with a swagelok QC-6 to plug in to my offboard bailout. I will then take my suit inflation hose off my deep bailout and add that to the dil first stage too.
I can then change my deep bailout first stage (the only one I see a need to have plumbed into the BOV) to have one normal reg on a 100cm hose and a swagelock QC-6.

Then (as Mark Chase also has) I'll run the hose with the swagelock QC-6 down the bailout cylinder, under the two rubber bands to keep it tight to the cylinder and connect it into my first stage down near my left D-ring.

If I run the off board first stage at a higher IP, I believe that this will mean I will use the off board gas first, leaving the on board gas available as reserve, or for if I have unclipped my off board tank for any reason.

I'm a little concerned that using all 4 LP ports on the dil first stage will result in unpleasant cable routing, so my backup option is to add a Y-block below the 1-3 block on the dil side and attach the off board QC6 hose into one side of the Y-block. Although I feel that the hose routing with this setup would be nicer, I'm hesitant to go this route straight up, as I feel it introduces an extra fail point (the Y-block below the 3-1) that is potentially unnecessary (paranoid much?).

Can anyone see any issues with this current plan or have any suggestions?

Cheers,
Dave
 
"I feel that I need more gas available to me and more importantly available quickly through my BOV (which I am still waiting on!)"


I would respectfully suggest otherwise...

BOV's are a transitional tool, to allow a more orderly exchange to other open circuit sources.
They allow the following:

(1): allow time for deplyment of another OC system, possibly while struggling with hypercapnia.

(2): allow for a limited time to troubleshoot a bad OC regulator, or two swwitch to yet another OC source should your main OC system be buggered somehow.

(3): and at the very least, switchig to it before transitioning to your "real" OC source guarantees that you close your DSV before removing it from your mouth... :)


Other than that... I've come to the conclusion that the worst OC regulator breathes better than the best BOV, and that simply being able to get two minutes of gas out of a BOV is more than enough.


Rethink and reconsider.... I have. Keep it simple.


Dave

.
 
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Hi Dave!

I agree with it being a transitional tool whole heartedly. 100% whole heartedly :banana1: (I just wanted to reiterate how whole heartedly I agree with you, as having stated I watched your talk multiple times, I didn't want you to think I had missed the point :nono:).

However I have on board 3L cylinders on my JJ. If I take a CO2 hit at 60m and have only 1/2 a tank of dil left I only have 450L of gas. With a CO2 hit @ 60m and a conservative SAC rate reaching 30, that makes 30lpm x 7ata = 210lpm of gas I am sucking down. With only the gas in my 3L available, I have just over 2mins to switch to a normal OC reg before I'm dead. I'd like more time than that.
I'm trying to keep it simple, with no more crap than I need and thought I was doing that by using a single hose and QC to increase the gas available to me?

How can I make it any more simple? If I use one of your switchblocks I feel that I end up faffing about with switches etc, and cluttering up my currently nice clean chest area. This way I use only one hose, connect and away I go. Have I missed the point somewhere along the way? :brickwall
 
Dave Sutton said:
"I feel that I need more gas available to me and more importantly available quickly through my BOV (which I am still waiting on!)"


I would respectfully suggest otherwise...

BOV's are a transitional tool, to allow a more orderly exchange to other open circuit sources.
They allow the following:

(1): allow time for deplyment of another OC system, possibly while struggling with hypercapnia.

(2): allow for a limited time to troubleshoot a bad OC regulator, or two swwitch to yet another OC source should your main OC system be buggered somehow.

(3): and at the very least, switchig to it before transitioning to your "real" OC source guarantees that you close your DSV before removing it from your mouth... :)


Other than that... I've come to the conclusion that the worst OC regulator breathes better than the best BOV, and that simply being able to get two minutes of gas out of a BOV is more than enough.


Rethink and reconsider.... I have. Keep it simple.


Dave

.
Click to expand...


I'm puzzled how a BOV that uses the same components as a standard reg, with WOB tests to the same standard could be worse that a standard reg?

A hypercapnia episode as one of the worst things that could happen to a diver (OC or CC), in the case of the CC diver being able to stay on a BOV for the entire recovery phase with access to all our b/out would surely be the nirvana we all seek?
 
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