Experience needed before CCR

[GLOC]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

CCR offers the gift of time. For me that gift means i can relax and enjoy a cave dive which i know i couldn't do on OC.

Assuming you have a problem that doesn't necessitate you to bail out...

Regards

[Mark Chase]

Quote: (Originally Posted by matthewoutram)

If you only consider the direct-costs then you are right - but that's a naff way to do it IMHO. What about indirect?

Try working out the actual cost per minute underwater and see what you come-up with. I make my Grenada trip £3.22/min OC versus £2.14/min CCR. But I don't really care about those costs, more value for money calculation; 55% more time underwater CCR than OC. YMMV.

Perhaps you boys and girls are getting free flights and boat rides...if so send me the link, lol.

Matt.

For my Uk diving the logistical cost of CCR is a significant saving. If i dived Nitrox depths it would have taken years to pay off my unit but eventually it would as a CCR dive is £15 where as a air and deco gas or twinset nitrox dive is now costing more than this.

In terms of dive duration, my shallow (above 40m) twinset diving run times were about the same on OC as they are now on CCR. IE on twin 12s i could do 45mins to an hour on the bottom at 40m and I do an hour on CCR.

Below 40m I have found my bottom times went up from 30mins to 45mins and staid there so a 50% increase in dive fun on CCR.

My problem with CCR diving abroad is the cost of transporting the unit and the risk of damage to the unit. For this reason Id struggle to argue its cheaper.

If i went to Truck id much prefer to be on CCR but id be tempted to do it on OC and avoid the nightmare of getting my unit out there.

ATB

Mark

[GLOC]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

If i went to Truck id much prefer to be on CCR but id be tempted to do it on OC and avoid the nightmare of getting my unit out there.

At 10p a litre for He, I can't afford to do Truk on OC!!

Regards

[Chickdiver]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

If i went to Truck id much prefer to be on CCR but id be tempted to do it on OC and avoid the nightmare of getting my unit out there.

ATB

Mark

Things may be different coming from the UK, and depending on the unit, but... I've taken my Meg to Truk twice now (along with a group of others traveling with us, almost all on CCR)- no issues at all, and it really wasn't that much hassle. It was totally worth the little bit of extra logistics to do it. On the other hand, my husband and I took our Megs to Mexico a couple of years ago, and it was a logistical nightmare- not so much the traveling, but just dealing with the 'breathers where there isn't much in the way of support for them. We were talking over dinner last night about going back, only this time I think we are inclined to do it OC- its much less hassle, and while CCR does have some advantages, they don't outweigh the hassle there.

[matt]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chickdiver)

Things may be different coming from the UK, and depending on the unit, but... I've taken my Meg to Truk twice now (along with a group of others traveling with us, almost all on CCR)- no issues at all, and it really wasn't that much hassle. It was totally worth the little bit of extra logistics to do it. On the other hand, my husband and I took our Megs to Mexico a couple of years ago, and it was a logistical nightmare- not so much the traveling, but just dealing with the 'breathers where there isn't much in the way of support for them. We were talking over dinner last night about going back, only this time I think we are inclined to do it OC- its much less hassle, and while CCR does have some advantages, they don't outweigh the hassle there.

It's no different from the UK - not all Mark's opinions are actual fact ;-)

[Mark Chase]

Quote: (Originally Posted by GLOC)

Assuming you have a problem that doesn't necessitate you to bail out...

Regards

Which is a rebreather fault not a dive issue.

Then we have OC SCR and pure 02 CCR to fall back on.

The fact is CCR faults on non intrusive CCRs are usualy not insermountable. It lmits the faults to unrecoverable flood or C02 hit.

All other CCR issues are managable on unit or leave the unit able to suport a OC bailout which would be my prefered option.

If you plan the bailout properly then all the other options are in reserve.

Ultimatly its down to what scares you the most. For me its getting lost in the cave on a finite gas supply that ever worsened by increased SAC as my sters grows. Which is why I prefer to cave dive on CCR.

Its likley this is because i have 1500+ hours on CCR and less than 100 hours in caves.

ATB

Mark

[Mark Chase]

Quote: (Originally Posted by matthewoutram)

It's no different from the UK - not all Mark's opinions are actual fact ;-)

Sorry whats no diferent from the UK


I have been to Mexico and its a direct flght or via Miami but Truck is a two day journy with multiple transits.

Admitedly Miami is a nightmare for Mexico but Thomas Cook will get you there direct in 14 hours which just limits the problem to excess baggage cost.

I dont see this as a drama and i am out in Mexico in Feb with my CCR


ATB

Mark

[nickb]

Quote: (Originally Posted by matthewoutram)

It's no different from the UK - not all Mark's opinions are actual fact ;-)

Exactly, in another thread I posted a photo of my entire JJ in a Peli 1600. Total weight 25kg. That went to Bikini and back with no excess baggage charges and the only time I saw it was at SFO where I had to take it about 100m to the United connection conveyor. The only 'nightmare' would have been a no-show of my bags.

I couldn't imagine going to Truk without a rebreather. The only open circuit diving I ever intend to do again will be bailout practice.

[Chickdiver]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

Sorry whats no diferent from the UK


I have been to Mexico and its a direct flght or via Miami but Truck is a two day journy with multiple transits.

Admitedly Miami is a nightmare for Mexico but Thomas Cook will get you there direct in 14 hours which just limits the problem to excess baggage cost.

I dont see this as a drama and i am out in Mexico in Feb with my CCR


ATB

Mark

Are you flying bottles to MX? Who are you getting gas from? (truly curious here, as that was where our issues were). We rented bottles from Matt, and they weren't what we asked for, nor were they full (which they were supposed to be) when we picked them up. Then we had to deal with the hassle of getting them filled, etc. Villas deRosa refused to fire up thier compressor to fill dil for us (despite the fact that we were staying there). We ended up spending 3/4 of our time running around dealing with fills and not doing nearly as much diving as we would have liked.

[lizardland]

I think a lot of OC experience is good. I don't know that there is much that is transferable but being able to keep your head and just have some underwater commonsense is worth the effort to gain. I suppose you could do that on CCR but it isn't exactly forgiving and bailing out isn't the time to find out you aren't comfortable. Anyone can dive a working unit. I've always looked on CCR as a way of doing 9m dives with a 90m mindset.

The big thing I've noticed from watching people in training is the inability to slow down. You get on a finite gas source and suddenly you need to go at a million miles an hour. If you have enough gas then what do you have to worry about? Slow down, sort yourself out.

I doubt a head full of CO2 cares about whether you were good on OC or not, it's a great leveller.

I still love OC diving, I had a nice 57m dip last Sunday. Everything is just a tool in the box.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Remco)

this is proof "there are bad instructors"

15min in the pool and I had a RB cert from someone who would be considered at the top of his game even today.

If you want some truly bad instructors then get into boating, RYA PB2 cert (which can be commercially endorsed to take passengers 3nm from a safe harbour) from a whopping 45min at the helm. 60% of that time was in a marina.